Category: spiritual issues

Comment 2 from Brother Raymond. This was on one of the “Perky Bob” posts.

He is wery wery disappointed with me.

As I read this my emotions flicker through me like a power point slideshow. Click, sadness, click anger, click frustration. I am trying to hold myself together because the way you view these people is so unreal, so unloving. Your degrading nicknames and scorn (“Perky Bob”?? Aren’t there a lot worse things a person could be called?) , what were you expecting here? You see people that are weak and smash them emotionally. Proverbs say the wicked find no good in their neighbor. (Okay. This is what scares me. This mindset that makes such HUGE leaps in thought. Calling Perky Bob “Perky Bob” is in NO way the same as finding “no good” in him. He was actually a nice man, just too perky and too ….. much for us at the time. And it’s nice to see that he’s finding so much good in me, no?) So you go to church running on emotional fumes, obviously full of gall and bitterness, expecting…what? Other broken people to give you the answers to the reason why some Christians seem so out of touch with reality? (Hm. Why DO some Christians seem so out of touch with reality, Brother Raymond?) A hug, some hot coco, a foot rub? (Don’t mean to be wicked, but it’s actually cocoA, and my answers are: no, yes, and yes.) What irritates me most is you wrote this stuff BEFORE you had your bad experience. (Yes, because some stuff happened before other stuff. Damn you, time!) So you were already slandering these people in your heart (There it is again. That weird, off-kilter definition of slander. How is something anonymous “slander”? Are you sure you don’t go to an FOC church, Ray?? Some Christians view slander as any questioning of anything church and /or Christian related), and on your blog way before they disappointed you. If I was Bob and I read this post I would be heartbroke. (Because I am, naturally, using his real name, posting his face and mine and sending him the link to this FOC blog so he knows I’m referring to him) You just don’t seem to get it. Maybe the reason you have had so many horrible experiences with others is because you draw spirits that are like yourself. It is God showing you yourself manifest in another person and you loath yourself so much you loath them. (WOW. Also: I cannot keep correcting your spelling. It’s a full-time job.) Honestly, if you truly loved Christ you should dump this blog..re write your experience with a little more grace toward others if you need to tell the world how mistreated you have been, and let it go. You are doing, by these writings, exactly what you claim to burn with righteous hatred against. (I know for a fact that I have never said I “burn with righteous hatred” against anything, although my crankypants are frequently tight) Its like passive aggressive full assault because you couldn’t just be real (???) with these people. I pray you repent of this evil. (Again, WOW.) I don’t know if I can even finish this blog. I am trying to learn about the movement but its hard to see through all the self-aggrandizement, false humility, and put downs. All from a person who is to cowardly to show her own face on her blog case someone gave you a nice nickname that was degrading based on your appearance. (What are you even TALKING about?? You know, I love those nice but also degrading nicknames. What?) Please stop this. It is an affront to Christ and shameful. I hope someone doesn’t put all your dirt of front street because by the sounds of it you might totally break down. (Where is Front Street?) Or maybe someone did and that’s why your so bitter but why return the evil and do it here. I don’t even know these people and it angers me to see you savage them (“Perky” is savage? Saying that I didn’t want to go to lunch with a total stranger is savage??) …maybe just because I know they may be Christians in need of more grace than you are willing to give.

Yowza, yamahama, and amen.

More to come. Soon, his head explodes.

During the time we had our FOC blog up and running — all of about 3 months last summer — we became acquainted with a fellow who called himself Brother Raymond. He found our story and began commenting, or more accurately, ranting and lambasting me.

Oh, he hated me.

HARD.

But he also apparently hated the written word since he seemed to butcher it with callous regularity. His ire towards me had a snowball effect. He became angrier and more babbling and incoherent with each successive comment.

I’m posting his comments here and not password protecting them. If you didn’t read the saga, you may be at a bit of a loss, but not much of one.

Here is his first comment, from early on in our story. This is Brother Raymond at his calmest and most rational.

(More comments to follow. My comments in italics.)

I have been wounded by many Churches myself, as has my wife, and I have come to realize that Paul warned us that the last days would be perilous times, Jesus wondered if when he came he would find faith on the earth, and hypocrisy has been rampant through Christian history hence Jesus warning us about the tares and the goats. I also wondered how you would have reacted if some of the members walked up to you in sunglasses, (I would have thought nothing of the sunglasses, actually) refused your invitations to lunch, (I would have figured they had reasons they preferred not to go) quizzed you intensely on your spiritual beliefs as soon as they met you etc. (Where he finds in the story that either of us did this, I do not know. I asked the pastor some questions related to the church, not about his personal beliefs. If a pastor can’t handle those questions, he shouldn’t be a pastor.) It seems you think that the body of Christ should be able to read your mind and tip toe around your many issues. I stopped being surprised a long time ago when Christians don’t act according to their profession. (Uh, this is where we hugely differ, Ray. Christianity is not a profession, nor should it be.) As I have journeyed through Seminary I have wept over the reality that I don’t fit in and will probably have a hard time pastoring a church (ah, I see, it is a profession for you) because of the many things I resist within Christendom that I feel is unchristian (Like rampant militarism and patriotism). I do not give up though and whenever I walk into a new church I watch, I pray, I ask God how I can serve the people around me no matter if they are strong, hypocritical, loving or weak. I seek Jesus to lead me and expect to be slandered, misrepresented and possibly kicked out eventually. I know, its sad, but I love people and I am determined never to separate from others but walk in the light I have been given and let them separate from me while giving as much mercy and grace as I can. (Here’s what I do, Ray: I steer clear of TELLING people the ways in which I am a good Christian. That’s not for ME to say. I think that’s for others to say of us — or not.) I don’t know where you are at in your spiritual life now but there was great healing needed in your life. I am sorry you have been hurt by Christians. Cursed is the man who trust in man Jeremiah said. We are to lay down our lives for others and let Jesus be our guide. How do yo think Jesus felt in a corrupt religious system, rejected by the people he helped CREATE? Everyone forsook Him. You seem very self centered in your writing, judgmental, and looking for a reason to reject people who are trying to love you the best way they know how. (This one knocked me flat for a long time because there is truth in this. I AM self-centered and judgmental. I don’t think I look for reasons to reject people, so I won’t own that one.) We are to fellowship with others, bear the scruples of the weak, be slow to wrath, great in mercy, and desiring to be least among men and servants of all. When you are truly born again you die with Christ. It seems there is alot of flesh that needs to die, according to your writing, where you can see people as Jesus sees them. I always tell my wife we have to extend the same grace we desire others to extend to us. Yet, in none of your writings does it seem you desire to give people mercy, love and service you just pick apart their character flaws while wondering when people are going to serve you. (I thought about this one a long time, too. I need more mercy and love, that’s true; however, I don’t think the story picks apart people’s “character flaws.” I steer clear of making proclamations about people’s character in our saga. Even Joe. I talk about people’s BEHAVIOR/ACTIONS and my reactions to them. I did that deliberately because I think it’s important to make a distinction between character and actions. I even said that IN the story — the two are not always synonymous. Very good people are capable of behaving very badly in a given moment or given period of time.) It saddens me that so many people jump from church to church, looking to get their needs met or entertained (hm, I wish I HAD been entertained) rather than being led by God to serve a group. When I ask people why they go to their church its hardly ever that Jesus led them there but “I like the music”, “The preaching is great”, “Our pastor is a superstar”. If Jesus leads you to a place you just jump in and start serving without all the neurotic mental gymnastics you seem to be performing trying to protect yourself and pick people apart. (not to pick apart your character or anything) Sister, I pray you get healed, I pray Jesus becomes you center, and I pray you find a place where you can serve others without caring about self, reputation or what your going to get out of it. Don’t go to church be the church. In Christ, In Love, (yes, I do feel loved) Brother Raymond.

I sat for a long time with the things he said to me and he’s right on certain things. There are things in my character I will always struggle with. I will always struggle with being, well, kind of an asshole on too many levels. And this isn’t me, channeling my inner Baldy (head of the FOC) false humilityâ„¢ and saying, “I’m the worst sinner I know.” I don’t think I am, frankly, which is where that judgmental thing kicks in, I guess. But I’m not offended by his opinion of me. No, I’m actually offended at his preachiness and incoherence and broad brush of things. He writes macro. He pronounces and declares and declaims. He forms conclusions about things without being at the conclusion of things. That’s what bothers me. There’s a certain type of Christian who will form conclusions with inadequate information, without the full story, or without even personally experiencing something. Oh, like the people who refused to see The Last Temptation of Christ years ago — which we saw and had great discussions about — or the people who refused to read Harry Potter — which we both read and loved. These people will take hearsay or snippets of information culled from various “acceptable” sources and form what they think is a fully formed opinion based on half-formed ideas. I have no respect for that. GO SEE The Last Temptation of Christ THEN form an opinion. READ Harry Potter AND THEN have your say.

You know, sometimes, I start reading a book and don’t like it. Last year, I read what I now consider to be one of my favorite books of all time, Villette, by Charlotte Bronte. But honestly, at the beginning I didn’t like it, I contemplated stopping, I just wasn’t getting it. There were two choices: keep reading or stop. I kept reading and slowly and in a huge breathtaking way, my opinion changed. I went from total apathy to absolute love in the course of, oh, 300 pages, but beyond that, I’d earned the right to have an opinion because I’d finished the story.

So FINISH the story, dude.

If you hate me when it’s over, so be it.

Because then I would say you’d honestly earned that hatred of me.

Since I was exhorted not to be “so one-sided” in my view on this, I have edited my “liking” post to temper my virulently opinionated stance. If you haven’t read that post, then this post will have NO, zip, zero context at all.

Come see the softer more Jekyll and Hyde side of me in this so much better post. I mean, it’s important to try to understand and represent opposing points of view and not be so opinionated on one’s own blog …. right?

So, okay, here ya go.

_________________________________________________________

Be forewarned: Crankypants ON.

Or OFF.

I’ve started to see something disturbing but also uplifting in my alter ego wanderings on Facebook. Well, the whole thing is pretty disturbing but also uplifting; still, let’s narrow the field here.

Okay. Here I go. Unedited crank mixed with wonderment.

So. Tell me:

Why do some FB Christians need to say they “like” the Bible or that the Bible is one of their favorite books? I mean, isn’t that kind of a given? But I’m glad they do it because if they didn’t, how would I know if they like the Bible or not for sure? And don’t most of your FB friends already assume this about you, that you like the Bible? Then again, we shouldn’t assume because, as we know, it makes that bad word out of you and me. If a person is a Christian, this would imply that the Bible, the” handbook,” essentially, for Christians, is something that they like or is one of their favorite books which is awesome and precious. They go hand in hand, don’t they? A Bible and a Christian? How can you live as a Christian and not like-love-need the Bible? Did I mention that I like-love-need the Bible? Saying so is stating the obvious and stating the obvious is boring and sometimes fun. It’s like saying, “I’m a human and I like air” or “I’m a man and I like sex. But maybe I don’t if I’m too tired or dead.”

Really? Wow. I am gobsmacked. Humans like air?? Men like sex — if they’re not too tired or dead?? Christians like the Bible????

This is totally new information!! But not really, now that I think about it!!

I shall write these things down. They seem like good things to know that I did not previously know. I know!!!

Frankly, if a Christian doesn’t like the Bible, I’d have to at least put an asterisk by their personal label of “Christian” or perhaps a frowny face. 🙁

It all strikes me as something Christians do in kneejerk response to either real or perceived expectations of what constitutes godliness but expectations give you something to strive for and that’s not bad. If I “like” the Bible, I will seem godly to others and I need to seem godly to others whether or not I actually am OR If I like the Bible I might inspire other people and make them happy. It strikes me, too, as something Christians do for other Christians to avoid criticism and judgment from said other Christians. If I put the Bible as one of my favorite books, I might be spared judgment of my Christianity OR I don’t personally know any judge-y Christians so I know this won’t happen to me.

Christians are as good at judging others as non-Christians, maybe even better, but what they’re really better at is not judging. In my experience anyway.

You need to face it: Jesus isn’t impressed if you “like” the Bible on FB or list it as a favorite book, but he is impressed if you DO do it. I don’t think it earns you special points or rewards in heaven, but I don’t know for sure so it probably does. Rather like a Jesus fish on a car, which is also a good way to tell people about Jesus. Who cares? Everyone does! What eternal difference does it make? Will the Lord say to you, “Well done, good and faithful servant, for taking 2 seconds to ‘like’ my book on FB”? He might and that would be awesome! How does it move anyone towards Jesus in a genuine or redemptive way? Will someone accept Jesus as Lord because you “liked” the Bible on your FB page? Not too likely. Then again, I know of 37 people who did that exact thing. It’s simply misguided but also smart to do these things thinking they make some kind of eternal difference.

And if you’re a parent feeling compelled to do it so your kids can see you do it, I’d say that if your kids can’t see from the way you live and love them that you “like” the Bible, “liking” it on FB won’t make one eensy bit of difference to them — ever, although I can’t use the word “eensy” with total certainty. I’m sure there are plenty of Bible-“liking” parents on FB who treat their kids like crap just like there might be some Bible “unliking” parents who treat their kids like kings and queens, but I doubt it. 🙁

I hate this kind of thing but I also love it. I hate it because it’s cheap virtue but I also love it because it’s expensive vice. It weighs less than a feather in the scales of eternity, then again, I haven’t ever seen the eternal scales and if they’re anything like my doctor’s scales, then everything weighs A LOT. It says Look at me! Proving my goodness by pressing a button! But it also says Don’t look at me! I haven’t pressed anything! I hate it too because it strikes me as so kneejerk and unthinking whilst simultaneously being deliberate and analytical. Christians who do this don’t think about why they’re actually doing this or what meaning (ahem, zero or infinite) it really has. They just do it. These kinds of “likings” that Christians do on FB – and I’ve railed about them before but I’m too lazy and energetic and ranting and joyful right now to make a link – strike me almost as a form of Christian OCD. Really, they do. I honestly think the Christians who “like” Christian things on FB can’t NOT do it, but there are probably also times when they can’t not NOT do it. If they’ve liked XYZ Christian thing on FB, I’d bet the recent Lotto jackpot they wouldnot/couldnot go back to that page and unlike XYZ Christian thing without feeling guilty or in serious eternal trouble.

Or they would and could, which is also valid.

It’s annoying and endearing. And kind of frightening but welcoming to me, actually.

So I’d like to offer a hypothetical to these Christians:

Let’s say, for example, that JRR Tolkien is your only FB friend. Yes, he’s dead, but for the sake of this example, he’s come back from the dead, he’s not a zombie, although he might be, he’s your friend in real life and, again, he’s your only FB friend. Given that scenario, would you then “like” his “Lord of the Rings” trilogy or list it among your favorite books on your FB page? Ol’ undead possible zombie Tolkien is the only one who would see this. Wouldn’t doing that strike you as odd and unnecessary and kinda needy, but also normal and necessary and pretty wealthy? Since you’re real life friends, wouldn’t he already know your opinion of his books? Then again, he’s probably a zombie egomaniac, like all artists, so it’s a good idea to cover your ass in this way so he doesn’t eat your brains or your ass. Don’t you think the books would have come up between you at some point? Although I wouldn’t bring them up now, what with the possible zombie thing and all. So why would “liking” them be necessary, for your sake or his, but as I’ve just mentioned if he might be a zombie and you piss him off by not doing it, that won’t go well for you, my unliking friend.

To follow my analogy, if Jesus were your only FB friend, would you “like” the Bible or put it as a favorite book? If those things are true for you – that you like the Bible, that it’s among your favorite books — Jesus already knows that, doesn’t he? Then again, couldn’t hurt to stroke the divine ego. If we can agree or disagree that that is or isn’t the case, then it would be completely unnecessary or necessary for you to do it, right? Actually, liking the Bible just for your friend Jesus’s sake strikes me as a bit of an insult or compliment to the omniscience of the Lord of the universe, depending, I guess, on his mood that day. Hm. I’m not suuure Jesus knows this, so I’d better tell him, in case that whole knowing everything dealio is starting to slip.

Or not.

Really, it shows a lack of faith but at the same time tremendous faith in his omniscience or ignorance if you feel the need to state this for his benefit.

Oh ye of little or much faith!

But if this scenario isn’t true for you, if Jesus isn’t your only FB friend, then for whom are you doing this?

NOT Jesus, who may/may not know it already. Not yourself, because, uhh, you know it already. But maybe you don’t and that’s really the rub here.

That only leaves ….. other people. Right?

Other people frankly don’t care except that they do care very much. I’m sorry, but they really don’t not care. And if you have a FB friend who actually would confront you about the fact that you haven’t “liked” the Bible yet or listed it as a favorite book, first, you probably go to an FOC church or don’t go to church at all and, second, you need to unfriend said “friend” immediately because life’s too short for that kind of friend and, besides, you have all eternity to love him ….. later, not now, unless you go to hell where there ain’t no lovin’ no how.

Come on, FB Christians. Don’t “like” the Bible for a show. Do it for MONEY.

God already knows or not whether you do or you don’t.

That’s all that matters or ultimately doesn’t matter which is what this is really all about.

Be forewarned: Crankypants ON.

I’ve started to see something disturbing in my alter ego wanderings on Facebook. Well, the whole thing is pretty disturbing, but let’s narrow the field here.

Okay. Here I go. Unedited crank.

So. Tell me:

Why do some FB Christians need to say they “like” the Bible or that the Bible is one of their favorite books? I mean, isn’t that kind of a given? And don’t most of your FB friends already assume this about you, that you like the Bible? If a person is a Christian, this would imply that the Bible, the” handbook,” essentially, for Christians, is something that they like or is one of their favorite books. They go hand in hand, don’t they? A Bible and a Christian? How can you live as a Christian and not like-love-need the Bible? Saying so is stating the obvious and stating the obvious is boring. It’s like saying, “I’m a human and I like air” or “I’m a man and I like sex.”

Really? Wow. I am gobsmacked. Humans like air?? Men like sex??? Christians like the Bible????

This is totally new information!!!

I shall write these things down. They seem like good things to know that I did not previously know.

Frankly, if a Christian doesn’t like the Bible, I’d have to at least put an asterisk by their personal label of “Christian.”

It all strikes me as something Christians do in kneejerk response to either real or perceived expectations of what constitutes godliness. If I “like” the Bible, I will seem godly to others and I need to seem godly to others whether or not I actually am. It strikes me, too, as something Christians do for other Christians to avoid criticism and judgment from said other Christians. If I put the Bible as one of my favorite books, I might be spared judgment of my Christianity.

Nope, you won’t. Christians are as good at judging others as non-Christians, maybe even better. In my experience anyway.

You need to face it: Jesus isn’t impressed if you “like” the Bible on FB or list it as a favorite book. I don’t think it earns you special points or rewards in heaven. Rather like a Jesus fish on a car. Who cares? What eternal difference does it make? Will the Lord say to you, “Well done, good and faithful servant, for taking 2 seconds to ‘like’ my book on FB”? How does it move anyone towards Jesus in a genuine or redemptive way? Will someone accept Jesus as Lord because you “liked” the Bible on your FB page? Not too likely. It’s simply misguided to do these things thinking they make some kind of eternal difference.

And if you’re a parent feeling compelled to do it so your kids can see you do it, I’d say that if your kids can’t see from the way you live and love them that you “like” the Bible, “liking” it on FB won’t make one eensy bit of difference to them — ever. I’m sure there are plenty of Bible-“liking” parents on FB who treat their kids like crap.

I hate this kind of thing. I hate it because it’s cheap virtue. It weighs less than a feather in the scales of eternity. Look at me! Proving my goodness by pressing a button! But I hate it too because it strikes me as so kneejerk and unthinking. Christians who do this don’t think about why they’re actually doing this or what meaning (ahem, zero) it really has. They just do it. These kinds of “likings” that Christians do on FB – and I’ve railed about them before but I’m too lazy and ranting right now to make a link – strike me almost as a form of Christian OCD. Really, they do. I honestly think the Christians who “like” Christian things on FB can’t NOT do it. If they’ve liked XYZ Christian thing on FB, I’d bet the recent Lotto jackpot they wouldnot/couldnot go back to that page and unlike XYZ Christian thing without feeling guilty or in serious eternal trouble.

It’s annoying. And kind of frightening to me, actually.

So I’d like to offer a hypothetical to these Christians:

Let’s say, for example, that JRR Tolkien is your only FB friend. Yes, he’s dead, but for the sake of this example, he’s come back from the dead, he’s not a zombie, he’s your friend in real life and, again, he’s your only FB friend. Given that scenario, would you then “like” his “Lord of the Rings” trilogy or list it among your favorite books on your FB page? Ol’ undead Tolkien is the only one who would see this. Wouldn’t doing that strike you as odd and unnecessary and kinda needy? Since you’re real life friends, wouldn’t he already know your opinion of his books? Don’t you think they would have come up between you at some point? So why would “liking” them be necessary, for your sake or his?

To follow my analogy, if Jesus were your only FB friend, would you “like” the Bible or put it as a favorite book? If those things are true for you – that you like the Bible, that it’s among your favorite books — Jesus already knows that, doesn’t he? If we can agree that that’s the case, it would be completely unnecessary for you to do it then, right? Actually, liking the Bible just for your friend Jesus’s sake strikes me as a bit of an insult to the omniscience of the Lord of the universe. Hm. I’m not suuure Jesus knows this, so I’d better tell him, in case that whole knowing everything dealio is starting to slip.

Really, it shows a lack of faith in his omniscience if you feel the need to state this for his benefit.

Oh ye of little faith!

But if this scenario isn’t true for you, if Jesus isn’t your only FB friend, then for whom are you doing this?

NOT Jesus, who knows it already. Not yourself, because, uhh, you know it already.

That only leaves ….. other people. Right?

Other people, who, frankly, don’t care. I’m sorry, but they really don’t. And if you have a FB friend who actually would confront you about the fact that you haven’t “liked” the Bible yet or listed it as a favorite book, first, you probably go to an FOC church and, second, you need to unfriend said “friend” immediately because life’s too short for that kind of friend and, besides, you have all eternity to love him ….. later, not now.

Come on, FB Christians. Don’t “like” the Bible for a show.

God already knows whether you do or you don’t.

That’s all that matters.

I’m telling you, this post gets more hits than any other post I’ve written.

LOTSA people secretly wondering about sex in heaven, pippa. I find it fascinating — all the Googling going on about this that eventually brings them here.

Some great newer comments over there, too. Go check it out, ya drunken slatterns.

I will be posting the Maybe Church posts soon. I’m just trying to figure out the best way to present it. So much has happened, so much I haven’t shared with anyone.

But I wonder, too, if the whole sordid stupid tale is a little “inside baseball.” Not that you all wouldn’t understand it. There’s no problem on that front, I’m sure. The posts I’ve written — long ago now — were written to try to explain this place to the best of my ability, but it’s just byzantine. It’s so bizarre. You can grasp a point of information, but once you turn it all over in your mind, it only raises yet another question. Basically, the FOC is a huge retarded rabbit hole that seems to have no bottom. I’m giving fair warning that you’re going down that hole with me.

Here are two things you need to know before reading the rest of the story:

~ The definition of gossip/slander in the FOC is not the standard, universally understood definition. Now, they don’t have a hard and fast definition that they publish in a handbook or a membership agreement or anything like that. Oh no. It’s much more slippery and insidious than that. A person has to figure these things out for himself — or not. I figured it out when it bashed me upside the head, which I’m not sure actually fits the definition of “figuring it out for myself” but there it is.

My streamline of their unspoken definition of gossip/slander is this: Gossip is anything we (the FOC) disagree with, don’t like, or anything that doesn’t show our organization in the best possible light. Gossip can be anonymous with no names named. However, if we name names, it is not gossip.

So, pippa. Cement that definition in your brain. It’s accurate. It will help you as you read along and discover what a horrible gossip I was/am.

~ Second thing about the FOC that I figured out when it bashed me upside the head: Women are second-class citizens. Married women and married men are not to speak to each other unless they’re married to each other. You’re basically having sex with that person if you do so. Do not interact with anyone of the opposite sex not your spouse.

This will also be helpful for you to remember as my extreme whoredom will soon come to light.

Okay. So. Fun stuff.

The onslaught starts soon, Crackie!