There are two blogs out there sounding the alarms about the “family of churches” MB and I recently attended. I’ve mentioned them obliquely before, not outright, because I’m still weirdly paranoid about things. Not as much as months ago, but, strange, it’s still there. Fading, but there.
(I think I’m now going to simply refer to Maybe Church as FOC — “family of churches” — because then, oh THEN, I can refer to its members as FOCers, which makes me feel lightheaded and giddy and naughty, like I’ve just made out in the backseat for a really long time. I have no preferred pronunciation here, pippa, because no matter how you choose to pronounce it — folkers or fockers — it gives me JOY INAPPROPRIATE AND IMMEASURABLE. I mean, Christians just love to be “folks” and talk about “folks.” I cannot say whether they love to be “focks” but, well, sometimes it just happens.)
Uh, where was I?
Recently, on both of these blogs, a dude (let’s call him Dude) who attends “our” very own FOC church, blessed everybody by inserting himself into the conversations. He used his full name because if you’re a FOCer you should do no less for the sake of honesty. You do not want to be guilty of slander, which — let’s review — is what anonymous blogging (or anonymous blog commenting) IS. Oh, and let’s also review this: The bigger your anonymous boobs, the bigger your anonymous slander because then you’re an automatic tramp and therefore an automatic slanderer. Dude doesn’t have those woes, lucky duck, although I did get a gander of several men sporting large pancaking manboobs at FOC church. I know exactly who Dude is, and while he doesn’t have large pancaking manboobs, he does have a disturbingly hip-forward gait for a hetero dude. Eh, maybe some women like that. Whatever.
Now these blogs, in addition to sounding the warning bell about FOC, also serve as a kind of hospital, binding up the wounded, offering solace to the hurting and confused. The pain in some people’s posts just leaps off the page. It vibrates in the very air when you read their comments and I sometimes find myself feeling helpless that I can’t do more to help them. If you read long enough, you get a sense for context and stories and for who people are and I think that’s important to do on ANY blog before you comment. Get a feel for the vibe, the people, the tone. You’ll be a better commenter. Dude, however, simply barged into ongoing conversations about something else altogether to make his virtually incomprehensible pro-FOC rants.
I’m posting one of his first comments here, edited a bit for names, for his name, etc., but not edited at ALL for grammar, spelling, or, well, SENSE. I want to give you a feel for the mindset of a random FOCer.
(Anything in parentheses and italicized like this is my intervention.)
Here we go ….
Hey brothers and sisters,

PLEASE READ THIS

I would love to here in one sentence (because we all have long winded breaths! ha!) one thing that FOC does that is unbiblical.  It seems that bashing a person that the Father calls “son†or “daughter†would anger him.  So, let’s think of the truth being outside of us, and then work to get to that truth together, holding hands, not b-o-m-b-s…
I have just four comments to make here. Â I am a member of FOC SD and a current student at (Yodellyho Seminary) California. Â I am a former pastor of a non denominational church (founder) from Temecula, Ca. Â It was the fastest growing congregation in America at one point (3 to 524 in 4 and 1/2 months). Â I say that pridefully so that you respect me and will eventually bow down and laugh at every joke I make.
Comment 1: What attracted me to FOC, specifically in SD, was the gospel being placed at the center.  This was the intent of (former pastor) and (current pastor).  It isn’t about how much I read the Bible, how much I pray, whether or not that I tithe, or what gifts that I could finally shine with (I was a former pastor and worship-leader).  When I first lead worship for a small group there, (one of FOC SD pastors) asked me afterwards, “well…since, you didn’t ask for critique, let me give you some.† It angered me for almost a year that every time that I led worship he did that.  I even convinced my wife that he was a crazy control freak and shouldn’t be a pastor, and that maybe we should leave.  In the end, I realized that he was doing these things to actual serve me.  He saw sin in me and sought me out to care for my soul.  The sin lied within me of wanting to be noticed (HELLO, I was a pastor and worship-leader of one of the fastest growing church bodies before, and it had been two years before they asked me to do anything!).  I, the dumb sheep, didn’t get what my earthly shepherd was doing.

Comment 2: FOC has all kinds of problems.  So does the OPC, PCA, Calvary Chapel, URC, Rome, WillowCreek, John Piper, etc. ad nauseam.  This doesn’t mean that I would leave.  What other good church could I find?  Does anyone know of a good church?  I would love to see one.  Then I could finally be in heaven.

Comment 3: Since, probably, no one here is trained in the Bible (I don’t mean the Pastor’s College because it is pastoral, not intense biblical training), nor called to pastor a church, but called to be a dumb sheep of God, think of Peter, our great example of the perfect pastor, and then rethink your position.

Comment 4: Lastly, we get mad when people make Christianity about what the Christian does and not what the Savior did.  Why aren’t we applying the same to FOC? (FOC Pope) or (some FOC leader, I dunno), or (FOC SD pastor), et. al. are not FOC, their message is.  Do you agree with the gospel?  Then these people are your brothers no matter how bad they gave you a wedgie, chewed you out, didn’t listen to your concerns, or didn’t care about the gifts that God has given you.  That sounds like an earthly brother or sister to me.  They will get this all wrong themselves, but their message won’t change.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this.  I will probably judge you, pray that God give you boils under your armpits, laugh at you, and post your comments of (foc4life.com)I don’t know if that exists, haha; I will actually check right now…nope, doesn’t exist.
P.S. I know how you feel though.  I came from a Calvary Chapel background and had to deal with a lot of issues that people from FOC helped me with.  I get it.  What’s weird is that we love each other because of some dude that died on a piece of wood 1970 some odd years ago.
So, love you all!
Above all, may God bless us with the remembrance of what His Son has done by the power of the Holy Spirit for His Own glory,

Dude Duder
You know HELLO I’m not clear on something: Could you please clarify whether you are or are NOT a former pastor and worship leader? You’re pretty vague on this point, Dude, and most people naturally need to know the contents of your entire CV and be repeatedly reminded thereof before they can form an opinion about you or anything you say. Please be more forthcoming. And then please be forthcoming again, so I can know what to think of you and myself in comparison to you. Thank you so much, Dude.
Uhm, thoughts on this, anyone?
I have more from Dude, but I want to hear what you guys think of him and his comment.
These are seriously his words (besides your intervention)? His boastful pie hole blowing “dumb sheep” commenting and all? No wonder the phrase “Dear Lord, save me from your followers” is out there!
“The bigger your anonymous boobs, the bigger your anonymous slander because then you’re an automatic tramp and therefore an automatic slanderer.”
Well I don’t know about being a slanderer, but having anonymous boobs DOES mean that your an automatic tramp and therefore an automatic slattern… Maybe his spellchecker changed slattern to slanderer?
Ironically, as you probably know the etymology of slattern is the German word “schlottern” which means “to hang loosely” which would apply to big anonymous boobs sans bra. Schlottern can also mean “to slouch” so if Dude has a hip-forward gait, he probably doesn’t slouch.
“Since, probably, no-one here is TRAINED IN THE BIBLE…”
Jesus had a lot to say to and about all the people who were TRAINED IN THE BIBLE. I think he called them Pharisees.
Just sayin’.
Geez, I gotta proofread better. I feel like such a Dude with my spelling and punctuation errors.
Wow. That actually made me sad to read. He is so unaware of how he comes across – like completely ZERO PERCENT unaware.
Also: // no matter how bad they gave you a wedgie, chewed you out, didn’t listen to your concerns, or didn’t care about the gifts that God has given you. //
You know what, Duder? After a little bit too much of all of that, then yes, you had better care about how your “brothers” are treating you. If all you get from your church are “wedgies” and people not listening to you – then perhaps you’re actually in a group not of Christians but total selfish jagoffs and you need to hightail it to somewhere else where the people actually make it a priority being KIND.
I am just blown away by the complete lack of self-awareness in his comment.
“What’s weird is that we love each other because of some dude that died on a piece of wood 1970 some odd years ago.” so cavalier. So sad. Jesus, The Word, Son of God is not some dude… he is THE DUDE!
Brian – I think he’s trying to be hip. That’s his idea of wit.
Oh, everyone — He got the SMACK. DOWN. on that site. Even MB chimed in on that one and that man doesn’t even comment on THIS blog!! I’ll have to find his comment back to Dude.
But I’m not done with our story of Dude. There’s more.
Here’s the thing that I found SHOCKING: “Dude” is 31 or 32, married, with 2 kids. He is one of the worship leaders at our former FOC church. (Yes, I know that means “family of churches” church, but whatevs.)
HE IS IN A POSITION OF LEADERSHIP AT THAT CHURCH, PIPPA.
Frankly, he was my least favorite worship leader. Dude literally cannot carry a tune; it was painful, PAINFUL to listen to him.
But why is someone who is in his early 30s but communicates like a teenager — an insult to a lot of teenagers I know — IN LEADERSHIP???
WHY???
I mean, this just screams immaturity and condescension and a host of interpersonal problems, doesn’t it?
Dude, your effing church didn’t just give me a wedgie. Idiot.
A several things that bother me about this guy, Tracey:
1) Per Brian’s comment and Sheila’s response, the guy is very immature in terms of what he thinks is both funny and “hip”.
2) Even in that previous statement, he messes up by using the phrase “1970 some odd years ago”. Based on the Gospels, the most logical year for Jesus’ crucifixion is 30 AD/CE. That’s 1980 some odd year ago. Yeah, it’s a petty argument, but anyone that is “trained in the Bible” or at least training on the Bible and the Gospels he should know this.
3) Like you, I’m confused about the former pastor thing. If he’s going to seminary now, the non-denominational churches must have a loose description of what a pastor is. Any pastor in most mainstream Christian sects has at least a Masters degree in Theology and has studied the Bible in Greek and Hebrew.
4) Dude, better be careful, things left on blogs that can be traced back to you directly… DUDE! That’s why most of us use aliases. I can find comments I made on blogs 10 years ago using my alias. For people like Sheila and Cara, not such a big deal. But making public statements about religion, when you’re in seminary and probably looking for a job in the field may not be the best thing to do.
JFH — Excellent points. I know the moderator of one of the blogs actually asked permission to remove his last name from the posts so he wouldn’t be so traceable. It’s literally an issue with FOCers. They think using a screen name is lying or slander or some other nonsensical explanation that I can’t wrap my brain around.
Funny thing, FOC has it’s own Pastors’ College — Dude references it here. It’s a 10-month seminary. And they teach Greek, too! Ten months of Greek and you’re good to go. Weeeee! These “dudes” are then the senior pastors of FOC. To be fair, the SD pastor is older and actually Ivy league and seminary educated and had served at other more, uh, legit churches in the past. (Still found him rather boring, though. BUT when there’s no Sunday school for kids over the age of 9, an Ivy League-educated guy might have to dumb down his sermons for the “little ears” a bit.)
And mark my words: The fact that he’s essentially too good or OVER-qualified for FOC will be this man’s undoing. He’s already got a target on his back. Won’t be long now, I can feel it. When that day comes, maybe Dude will be his replacement. Ugh. I have no animosity for this pastor, so that thought actually makes me sick.
And JFH — You never know who’s using a pseudonym, now do you? 😉
This comment reminds me of the joke: “Everybody’s a doctor on the Internet.” I suppose everyone’s a pastor, too – just not a Worship Master or somesuch.
Probably the thing that stands out most is that he’s saying must seem like the “correct” things, but they all add up to the wrong conclusion. It’s like a puzzle piece in the right spot, only it’s been flipped upside down and mashed into place. It SHOULD fit, but it doesn’t. He’s missing the gospel for the verses, if you like. GDazz is spot-on with her observation of what Jesus thought about correctness over the right thing. I read the gospel and it’s got stuff like “How can you claim to love God, whom you cannot see, while you hate your brother, whom you can see?” and “As thou hast done to the least of My brothers, thou hast done to Me.” He tells the Pharisees at one point that they’re right to keep the law, but they ought not to neglect weightier matters like mercy, justice, and compassion.
So – yes, churches are unavoidably full of sinners. They ought to go and sin no more. That won’t ever be finished here on earth. So why this emphasis on conformity and acting correctly? Is that sanctity? Did the actual saints behave that way? Go ahead and read that gospel, do you think anyone could mistake Peter for Thomas, Mary for Martha, John for Paul? And if I may say so, knowing nothing but the various aliases and “slander names,” could you confuse Tracey with GDazz or JFH with Cullen or Sheila with Kate P?
And Duder’s “comment three” is right out. The entirety of the Gospel is “Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand” and “This is My Beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased: listen to Him.” Everything else is details – some more important than others, but the gist of it is that He came for us, died for us, rose again, will bring us to be with Him, if we want it; we show that by how we live our lives, how we treat each other. If He is truly alive in us that treatment will improve. He never said “Go to Bible College that thou mayest understand the subtle nuances of My Message.” Some of us may choose to do that, from love of His flock, because it does pay to understand as much as we can; it’s hardly mandatory. He calls us all, not just the Worship Masters.
Also, Duder? Fair’s fair. If you’re going to give four (FOUR! hahahahaha) comments immediately after demanding one-sentence responses, then you are going to be disappointed. We’ll give you one sentence about something unbiblical FOC does, when you give us one sentence about something FOC does right.
NF — /Also, Duder? Fair’s fair. If you’re going to give four (FOUR! hahahahaha) comments immediately after demanding one-sentence responses, then you are going to be disappointed. We’ll give you one sentence about something unbiblical FOC does, when you give us one sentence about something FOC does right. /
It was so funny after Dude said, “I would like to HERE in one sentence one thing FOC does that is unbiblical,” the moderator of that blog quoted that back to him and said, “You’re kidding, right?”
And I lawfed and lawfed and lawfed. (I’m am suddenly British. Just work with me.)
One of the — many — things that strikes me here is this comment:
/What other good church could I find? Does anyone know of a good church? I would love to see one. Then I could finally be in heaven./
This is huge with those FOCers. See what he’s basically saying? “Where ELSE is there a church as GOOD as FOC?” They set themselves up as the only church “getting it right” and that idea filters down to the, erm, “dumb sheep.” There is NOWHERE ELSE you can go to find the Gospel being preached just SO. WE are your sole source for all things Jesus.
And the “dumb sheep” — which we’re called to be, according to Dude — eat this crap up. He’s fulfilling the dumb part of his “call” quite nicely.
FOCers really have become dumb, in both ways: mute and stupid. They do not speak up and they do not analyze.
Although, if Dude could just get the “mute” part down ……
/I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I will probably judge you, pray that God give you boils under your armpits, laugh at you, and post your comments/
Wow. How very Christian of you, Duder. That is very inspirational. Let me run right out and become a FOCer so I too can be judged and laughed at and wished boils upon. I am sure that is exactly what everyone is looking for in a “good” church and worship leader.
Whatever yourself, Duder.
MM — /Whatever yourself/
Hahahahahahaha! The ultimate rejoinder!!
Maggie for the win!