Roo raised the frightening specter of the “Miss/Ma’am” issue in the comments here.
There seems to be a spectrum for women. One day you’re a “Miss” and the next day, without notice or permission — BAM! — you’re suddenly, irretrievably, a “Ma’am.”
So I want to know this:
What is the equivalent spectrum for men? Is there one? Or is there just “Sir”? And if there is just “Sir” — the equivalent, I guess, of “Ma’am” — what could we call men that’s the equivalent of “Miss”? It’s not “dude,” is it? What is it?
All I know is that there doesn’t seem to be a similar spectrum on this for men.
And I cry foul.
I agree.
Miss Manners says that you call a young boy (in written correspondence) (AS YOU DO) “Master So-n-So” until he’s 7, then it’s just First Name So-n-So until he graduates from, I think, high school (or it may be turns 18). THEN he’s Mr. So-n-So.
I don’t know about the “sir” or “madam” thing. I’ve heard people call both my boys “sir,” and they’re 17 and 13. I think the difference is that a man’s status doesn’t change with marriage, so there’s no need for a different title.
While I was in the aforementioned downward spiral, J said something about the master/mister thing.
“But honey, no one’s used those titles in America since Queen Victoria died!”
I don’t think it’s the same at all.
I cry foul, too.
Lisa and Miss Manners has it right although those formalities are hardly ever observed any more. When I was a kid, my grandparents addressed letters to Master Robert. That was me. If it means anything, I don’t stand on titles. No need to call me Uncle, Mister, or Sir, regardless of age.
When I encounter a young male that I do not know/have not been introduced to I usually call them “Young Man.” For instances, if I am in a store and cannot reach something “Young Man, can you hand me that can of peas?”
Is that weird?? I don’t know what else to call them…Sir would be weird to say to a teenager or younger person.
I really like the Master/Miss thing but I think it is becoming outdated.
Lynne — I think that’s fine. I think you can say it with a bit of a “wink” in your voice, so you don’t feel too weird. Know what I mean?
If it’s not “Dude,” then I guess it can’t be “Geezer” either, huh?
Titles are an acknowledgment of a difference in social status, whether through education (Dr., Judge, Professor), or age or gender. The acknowledgment shows respect for the other person. I’ve always required my kids to call their friends parents “Mr. and Mrs.” Occasionally, someone has serious in-law issues and doesn’t want to be known as “Mrs. K” because that is her mother-in-law, so I do allow “Miss Becky”. There is a 16 year age spread between my kids and I’ve’ noticed sooooo many parents now who want their kids’ friends to call them by their first name; I’m standing firm that there has to be some title attached. They are parents, not peers.(At least one of these people it’s because she has her own issues and wants to be perpetually about 20. gross) With my older children, people in our little community were more formal. I still don’t like it when my kids’ friends, now in their 30s, married, with kids, call me by my first name, especially without asking first.
In China, all unknown and unrelated adults are to be addressed as “auntie” or “uncle” in general conversation, i.e “May I hold the door for you, auntie?” but if you are old enough, then it is “grandmother” or “grandfather”.
As to “Miss” or “Ma’am”….I’m 50 years old and have 9 children, I’ve sent them off to college, to the mission field and to war; I have ugly stretchmarks on my ab-less stomach and have cried rivers and laughed until I cried; I’ve EARNED that “Ma’am”, but, if you want to mistake me for my much younger sister or my daughters, I won’t complain too much about being called “Miss”. 🙂
You can call me anything if you say it with either a Southern accent (preferably Mississippian) or an Irish accent.