I don’t know what else to call this survey but “titles.”
So I’ve come up with a series of questions about the titles we have in one another’s lives: mom, dad, aunt, uncle, grandma, grandpa. You know, just …. titles. I have lingering questions regarding “titles” in my life and the lives of others and I want to get some opinions. Or maybe I’m just a weirdo who thinks about these things and no one else really gives a rip. Who knows?
(And actually, only one of the scenarios below applies to me. Others have happened to people I know.)
Instructions (as usual): Copy and paste questions into the comment box.
1. Agree/Disagree: I think it is okay to call people who are not actually my aunt or uncle by the title “Aunt” or “Uncle” So and So.
2. Agree/Disagree: I think it’s okay for my children to do the same thing.
3. T/F: My kids actually do call — or I would let them call — my friends by the title “Aunt” or “Uncle” So and So.
4. If you answered True, do/would these titles apply to all your friends? If not, why not?
5. If you answered False to #3, why don’t/wouldn’t you allow your kids to call your friends “Aunt” or “Uncle” So and So?
6. If you allow — or would allow — your kids to call your friends “Aunt” or “Uncle,” would you let them do this in the presence of their real aunt or uncle?
7. A step-parent scenario: Is is appropriate for a kid to call a step-parent “Mom” or “Dad”? I’m asking. I really don’t know.
8. Another step scenario: Your wife died. You’ve remarried. You have adult daughters who call your wife, their stepmom, “Mom.” There is less than 10 years’ difference in age between your new wife and your daughters. Calling her “Mom” — appropriate or not?
9. Does it dishonor your dead spouse to have your grown kids call your new spouse “Mom” or “Dad”?
10. What about younger kids? Is it okay for them to call your new spouse “Mom” or “Dad” if your first spouse is deceased?
11. Who decides what a step-parent is called? The bio parent or the step-parent? Or the kids??
12. A grandparent scenario: Your grown kids have no kids. You’re not a grandparent. You allow the kids of other people to call you “Grandma” and “Grandpa” in front of your adult childless kids. You really want to be grandma or grandpa, so is this okay or not okay?
13. Another grandparent scenario: Same parameters as above, but you list these same non-related kids as your “granddaughters” or “grandsons” on your Facebook page. Okay or not okay?
14. What is your philosophy of “titles”? I mean, who gets to call who what when there is no actual relation? (Horribly phrased, forgive me, but I think you know what I mean.) And who decides?
15. If a “title” hurts anyone in the process — and if you know it does — is that enough to stop using that title or is the title more important?
Thanks for taking another Nosy Friday Survey, pippa. I’m eager to read your thoughts.
1. Agree/Disagree: I think it is okay to call people who are not actually my aunt or uncle by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
==Not really, no. It’s disingenuous.
2. Agree/Disagree: I think it’s okay for my children to do the same thing.
==No. But see the answer to #3.
3. T/F: My kids actually do call — or I would let them call — my friends by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
==Not my friends. That would be weird. The one situation that we *do* use in my family is this: We are a very large and very close family and one of my cousins is so close to me in age and in heart that we are like sisters (and our mothers are also extremely close friends as well as sisters), so *our* children call her “Aunt Heather” even though she’s technically their First Cousin Once Removed. It just seemed easier. And when my own sister was born (when I was 15), she called me “Sissy” and all the cousins that are her age or younger call me “Aunt Sissy.” Now all those cousins’ children also call me “Aunt Sissy.”
4. If you answered True, do/would these titles apply to all your friends? If not, why not?
==NEVER. That is just weird.
5. If you answered False to #3, why don’t/wouldn’t you allow your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So?
==Even close friends can drift away and become NOT CLOSE someday. Actual family is always actually family, even if they screw up or run away or never contact us again or borrow money and never pay it back.
6. If you allow — or would allow — your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle,†would you let them do this in the presence of their real aunt or uncle?
==Confusing! No way.
7. A step-parent scenario: Is is appropriate for a kid to call a step-parent “Mom†or “Dad� I’m asking. I really don’t know.
==I think so, in some cases. If she’s been around a really long time and your own mom is no longer living, and you have a really good relationship with her, then I can see that it would be okay.
8. Another step scenario: Your wife died. You’ve remarried. You have adult daughters who call your wife, their stepmom, “Mom.†There is less than 10 years’ difference in age between your new wife and your daughters. Calling her “Mom†— appropriate or not?
==Depends… if she “acts” older than you and seems older, then okay, but if she’s one of those cougar-types who stays eternally young-looking and acting, then it’s probably weird.
9. Does it dishonor your dead spouse to have your grown kids call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad�
==Again, it depends. If New Mom is fulfilling that role and doesn’t DEMAND it from everyone, it might be okay.
10. What about younger kids? Is it okay for them to call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad†if your first spouse is deceased?
==If it makes things less confusing for them. If they never knew the other REAL Mom, and the New Mom is one who will probably stick around forever, it would probably be okay.
11. Who decides what a step-parent is called? The bio parent or the step-parent? Or the kids??
==I think it needs to be the kids’ decision. New Mom should never demand to be called something; that’s arrogant and insensitive.
12. A grandparent scenario: Your grown kids have no kids. You’re not a grandparent. You allow the kids of other people to call you “Grandma†and “Grandpa†in front of your adult childless kids. You really want to be grandma or grandpa, so is this okay or not okay?
==NO! I think this is very hurtful.
13. Another grandparent scenario: Same parameters as above, but you list these same non-related kids as your “granddaughters†or “grandsons†on your Facebook page. Okay or not okay?
==NOT OKAY and VERY MEAN.
14. What is your philosophy of “titles� I mean, who gets to call who what when there is no actual relation? (Horribly phrased, forgive me, but I think you know what I mean.) And who decides?
==If there’s no relation and no family ties at all (not a step-parent, etc), then the adult decides (I mean, if I prefer to be addressed as Mrs. Wood by children who are not related to me, then that’s what children should call me.) Some adults prefer just to be known by their first name. Occasionally, though, I have spent time with homeschooling families who insist that their children address non-family adults as Mrs. or Mr., regardless, and that’s fine. I defer to their parents’ wishes. It’s a respect issue, and even though I don’t feel “dissed” when non-family children call me “Kris”, some people do still feel that’s a problem, and I’m cool with that.
15. If a “title†hurts anyone in the process — and if you know it does — is that enough to stop using that title or is the title more important?
==People should ALWAYS defer to the hurt party in this instance. ESPECIALLY if you are aware of the hurt. That’s just intentional meanness and it’s evidence of a nasty character flaw.
Just my opinion. 🙂
1. Agree/Disagree: I think it is okay to call people who are not actually my aunt or uncle by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
Agree. I have a couple of friends of my parents who got tagged with “Aunt” and “Uncle” just because. . .well, just because. I don’t think it’s disrespectful to my “real” aunts and uncles — I mean, it’s not like they’re being REPLACED or anything.
2. Agree/Disagree: I think it’s okay for my children to do the same thing.
Agree.
3. T/F: My kids actually do call — or I would let them call — my friends by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
True.
4. If you answered True, do/would these titles apply to all your friends? If not, why not?
Most of the time, my boys call my friends Miss (or Mr.) FirstName. The only one they call “Aunt” is my friend Lori, and that’s because THEIR friend is her nephew, and HE calls her Aunt Lori, so my kids call her Aunt Lori. If we met, they’d call you Miss CreditUnion, unless YOU said they could call you Tracey, then it’d be MISS Tracey, or I’d be givin’ some serious stink-eye.
5. If you answered False to #3, why don’t/wouldn’t you allow your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So?
6. If you allow — or would allow — your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle,†would you let them do this in the presence of their real aunt or uncle?
Yes. Unless I though it would cause problems.
7. A step-parent scenario: Is is appropriate for a kid to call a step-parent “Mom†or “Dad� I’m asking. I really don’t know.
I have a problem with that, especially if the other bio-parent is around. When you have two living, involved parents, THEY are “Mom” and “Dad.”
8. Another step scenario: Your wife died. You’ve remarried. You have adult daughters who call your wife, their stepmom, “Mom.†There is less than 10 years’ difference in age between your new wife and your daughters. Calling her “Mom†— appropriate or not?
If stepmom doesn’t care, then I wouldn’t care.
9. Does it dishonor your dead spouse to have your grown kids call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad�
*I* don’t think so, but I can see how it would.
10. What about younger kids? Is it okay for them to call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad†if your first spouse is deceased?
If that’s the only “Mom” or “Dad” they’ve ever know, I think I would. Anything else is hinky.
11. Who decides what a step-parent is called? The bio parent or the step-parent? Or the kids??
I think a conference would be in order here. I DO think that a step-parent needs a title of some sort, though, because I firmly believe children don’t need to be going around calling adults by their first names. Especially adults with a semblance of authority over that child. THAT’S JUST ME, though.
12. A grandparent scenario: Your grown kids have no kids. You’re not a grandparent. You allow the kids of other people to call you “Grandma†and “Grandpa†in front of your adult childless kids. You really want to be grandma or grandpa, so is this okay or not okay?
If the child is doing it just because they see you, an elderly person, as a “Grandma,” then yeah. Okay. But to encourage that? No.
13. Another grandparent scenario: Same parameters as above, but you list these same non-related kids as your “granddaughters†or “grandsons†on your Facebook page. Okay or not okay?
Um. . .no.
14. What is your philosophy of “titles� I mean, who gets to call who what when there is no actual relation? (Horribly phrased, forgive me, but I think you know what I mean.) And who decides?
I do. I have a friend Sue (the famous Drunk Friend Sue) and she is the ONLY person my boys are allowed to call by her name only. And that’s only because Miss Sue sounds dumb. I am uncomfortable with children being that familiar with adults. This is cultural, I know. You’ll hardly ever hear a southern child call an adult by his or her first name.
15. If a “title†hurts anyone in the process — and if you know it does — is that enough to stop using that title or is the title more important?
I think so.
Holy crap. Sorry. FIX MAH FORMATTING PLZ.
I had a lot of opinions about this, so I posted them on my blog.
The strange thing to me was seeing here that other people’s reactions could be so different from my own. Not in a bad way – it’s just fascinating. I come from a VERY blended family. And I’ve had to make a lot of decisions about titles in my life. At the end of the day what I’ve learned boils down to two simple things:
1) Try to be considerate, but also don’t be oversensitive. Titles are a way of expressing love. Your family members showing affection for others or being treated affectionately by others ISN’T about YOU.
2) Titles belong to the person who uses them. You can suggest a title (especially if you have a grandbaby on the way and have strong feelings about how they are first introduced to you) but on the whole – give people permission to call you what you are comfortable with and then accept how they choose to define your relationship.
You can try to make familial titles a thing about rules and what is proper and correct but in the end, they are an expression of affection and dictating that is never going to succeed. Kids know who their aunties are. And who mothers them. Adults can tell them whatever they want to. The rules won’t make a difference in kids knowing who actually fill those needs.
Oh! And, of course, when I say “you” I don’t mean YOU – Tracey – I mean the theoretical general human bein’ for purposes of describing something. I always mix up my pronoun and POV when writing. arg!
And I’m only defining how I see these issues – it’s genuinely interesting to me that everyone sees them differently! 🙂
1. Agree/Disagree: I think it is okay to call people who are not actually my aunt or uncle by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
No, unless they’re like great aunts or uncles
2. Agree/Disagree: I think it’s okay for my children to do the same thing.
It Depends. My kids call my wife’s cousins Aunt and Uncle, but only started doing that when they started coming to my in-laws for Christmas and other holidays.
3. T/F: My kids actually do call — or I would let them call — my friends by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
False. Very close friends are called Mr. or Miss “First Name”, otherwise it’s Mr. or Mrs. “Last Name”
4. If you answered True, do/would these titles apply to all your friends? If not, why not?
5. If you answered False to #3, why don’t/wouldn’t you allow your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So?
Because they are not family.
6. If you allow — or would allow — your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle,†would you let them do this in the presence of their real aunt or uncle?
Absolutely not!
7. A step-parent scenario: Is is appropriate for a kid to call a step-parent “Mom†or “Dad� I’m asking. I really don’t know.
It depends how old they are, and whether their real parents are still involved in their life.
8. Another step scenario: Your wife died. You’ve remarried. You have adult daughters who call your wife, their stepmom, “Mom.†There is less than 10 years’ difference in age between your new wife and your daughters. Calling her “Mom†— appropriate or not?
I never call my step-mother “Mom”. Because she’s not! (I was 32 when my mom died). In fact, I am bothered when other people, especially my in-laws, ask me “How’s your mom doing?”
9. Does it dishonor your dead spouse to have your grown kids call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad�
Yes. (obviously my opinion only).
10. What about younger kids? Is it okay for them to call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad†if your first spouse is deceased?
It depends on the relationship… If they have adopted the children or are very close to the children, Yes.
11. Who decides what a step-parent is called? The bio parent or the step-parent? Or the kids??
The kids, in all situations.
12. A grandparent scenario: Your grown kids have no kids. You’re not a grandparent. You allow the kids of other people to call you “Grandma†and “Grandpa†in front of your adult childless kids. You really want to be grandma or grandpa, so is this okay or not okay?
No.
13. Another grandparent scenario: Same parameters as above, but you list these same non-related kids as your “granddaughters†or “grandsons†on your Facebook page. Okay or not okay?
Still no; a better solution is to call them some nickname
14. What is your philosophy of “titles� I mean, who gets to call who what when there is no actual relation? (Horribly phrased, forgive me, but I think you know what I mean.) And who decides?
Parents with consent of the “friends” for young kids. Adults should not use quaint familial names.
15. If a “title†hurts anyone in the process — and if you know it does — is that enough to stop using that title or is the title more important?
Stop using the title; again familial titles are for family… SPEAKING of titles: I make sure that both my kids and I call military people by their appropriate title and the same with politicians (whether I agree with their politics or not)… and use Sir or Ma’am when answering adults.
GraD — Good answers. Your “Aunt Heather” solution makes complete sense to me.
On the dead spouse/adult kids calling stepmom “Mom” thing: My personal opinion is that it seems dishonoring to the woman who birthed them and raised them and did all the hard work, basically. I don’t know why it strikes me as so hinky, to use Lisa’s word. If I were that stepmom, I like to think I’d be the one who’d say, “You know, you guys had a great mom and that title was for her. I’d feel uncomfortable with that. Let’s think of something else for me.” I know a stepmom whose stepkids call her “Mimi.”
Lisa — I love the “Miss” thing. I’d love to be “Miss Tracey.” (I taught at a preschool once where all the kids called me that.) And I agree: I think step-parents need some kind of title. I know another scenario — which I find a bit odd — where the stepmom of the kids is called “Mom” and bio mom is call “Mommy Susie.” Uhm …. kinda weird to me. Why isn’t step-mom called “Mommy Lorie” or something?
Marisa — /Your family members showing affection for others or being treated affectionately by others ISN’T about YOU./
Good point. The grandparent questions are about my in-laws. That’s an ongoing situation for me. It IS hurtful to me, even though I suppose, as you say, it’s not about me. (And I understand you’re using the “universal you” here.) There are times when I’ve felt that it’s been deliberate — the grandma/grandpa thing. MB has told them it’s hurtful to us. Again, though, maybe I’m overreacting. I NEVER rule that out. But it does hurt to hear kids call them that because I know it should have been our kids calling them that. And when there have been “Christmas morning with the ‘grandkids’? I’m sorry. I’ve left the room to go for a walk. It’s painful watching other kids live the life my kids should have had. You know?
Eh, also, I think there’s some redundancy in my questions. Sorry, guys! I was bleary when I wrote this.
JFH — Yeah, I tend to agree with you on the deceased parent thing. How odd that someone asks you how your mom is doing. Calling a new mom “Mom” when bio mom has died just rubs me the wrong way somehow.
I like that your kids use proper military titles. It’s nice. Respectful. And yes, ma’am/yes, sir is something you never hear anymore. Nice.
What do you mean by a “quaint familial name”? I’m being dense here.
1. Agree/Disagree: I think it is okay to call people who are not actually my aunt or uncle by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
Agree. I have have never personally assigned that status to anyone who wasn’t at least married to an aunt/uncle but I have no problem with those who do.
2. Agree/Disagree: I think it’s okay for my children to do the same thing.
Agree.
3. T/F: My kids actually do call — or I would let them call — my friends by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
True but I probably wouldn’t encourage it.
4. If you answered True, do/would these titles apply to all your friends? If not, why not?
By “friends”, I’m going to assume you mean close friends. If it happens on its own, I won’t object. I wouldn’t encourage it. I only have a handful of friends that have been in my life for a long time. They tend to come and go.
6. If you allow — or would allow — your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle,†would you let them do this in the presence of their real aunt or uncle?
Dicey. Some aunts/uncles are protective of that or they’re sticklers about it. I’d take a wait and see approach (Not that I’ll ever have to worry about this).
7. A step-parent scenario: Is is appropriate for a kid to call a step-parent “Mom†or “Dad� I’m asking. I really don’t know.
Maybe. If the parent is still in the picture, probably not.
8. Another step scenario: Your wife died. You’ve remarried. You have adult daughters who call your wife, their stepmom, “Mom.†There is less than 10 years’ difference in age between your new wife and your daughters. Calling her “Mom†— appropriate or not?
I’d leave that up to stepmom and daughters.
9. Does it dishonor your dead spouse to have your grown kids call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad�
No
10. What about younger kids? Is it okay for them to call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad†if your first spouse is deceased?
Yes
11. Who decides what a step-parent is called? The bio parent or the step-parent? Or the kids??
Mutual
12. A grandparent scenario: Your grown kids have no kids. You’re not a grandparent. You allow the kids of other people to call you “Grandma†and “Grandpa†in front of your adult childless kids. You really want to be grandma or grandpa, so is this okay or not okay?
Probably not a good idea
13. Another grandparent scenario: Same parameters as above, but you list these same non-related kids as your “granddaughters†or “grandsons†on your Facebook page. Okay or not okay?
Not OK.
14. What is your philosophy of “titles� I mean, who gets to call who what when there is no actual relation? (Horribly phrased, forgive me, but I think you know what I mean.) And who decides?
By mutual agreement and strictly informal.
15. If a “title†hurts anyone in the process — and if you know it does — is that enough to stop using that title or is the title more important?
The title is less important.
I think if I’m in doubt about any of these, I’d observe the formality. If Uncle Rob really isn’t an uncle and the title is upsetting to his biological uncles/aunts/whatever, he should yield.
1. Agree/Disagree: I think it is okay to call people who are not actually my aunt or uncle by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So. Disagree
2. Agree/Disagree: I think it’s okay for my children to do the same thing. Disagree
3. T/F: My kids actually do call — or I would let them call — my friends by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So. False
4. If you answered True, do/would these titles apply to all your friends? If not, why not?
5. If you answered False to #3, why don’t/wouldn’t you allow your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So? Becausethey have actual aunts and uncles. So they either called them by their last names with an honorific, or “Miss (First name)” or, if requested by said adult only, by their first names. Not a fan of that, but didn’t forbid it.
6. If you allow — or would allow — your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle,†would you let them do this in the presence of their real aunt or uncle?
7. A step-parent scenario: Is is appropriate for a kid to call a step-parent “Mom†or “Dad� I’m asking. I really don’t know. It depends. Oddly enough, my husband and I were both raised by our natural fathers and our step-mothers. He called his step-mother by her first name, though he referred to her in conversation as his mother. My situation was slightly different: my stepmother adopted my sister and me when she married our father, so she was our mother and we called her that.
8. Another step scenario: Your wife died. You’ve remarried. You have adult daughters who call your wife, their stepmom, “Mom.†There is less than 10 years’ difference in age between your new wife and your daughters. Calling her “Mom†— appropriate or not? I think it would depend on the degree of mutual affection. My SIL is thirteen years younger than her step-mother, but they all call her by her first name.
9. Does it dishonor your dead spouse to have your grown kids call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad� No. I think it is a lovely tribute to the new relationship.
10. What about younger kids? Is it okay for them to call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad†if your first spouse is deceased? Yes. Unless it is going to cause great pain to the deceased spouse’s relatives, who are an active part of the kid’s lives. And even then they might just have to let life move on.
11. Who decides what a step-parent is called? The bio parent or the step-parent? Or the kids?? Whoever has the most emotional stake in the situation. I was four when my dad remarried, so I was too small to make that decision.
12. A grandparent scenario: Your grown kids have no kids. You’re not a grandparent. You allow the kids of other people to call you “Grandma†and “Grandpa†in front of your adult childless kids. You really want to be grandma or grandpa, so is this okay or not okay? So not okay. If fact, that’s rather ooogy. Now- I am almost universally addressed by my married daughter’s friends and their children as “Mimi”, which is my gammy name. But I am a grandma, so it’s alright. Like everyone calling Granny Clampett “Granny”.
13. Another grandparent scenario: Same parameters as above, but you list these same non-related kids as your “granddaughters†or “grandsons†on your Facebook page. Okay or not okay? No- and creepy.
14. What is your philosophy of “titles� I mean, who gets to call who what when there is no actual relation? (Horribly phrased, forgive me, but I think you know what I mean.) And who decides? See # 12 above. The person being addressed gets to choose.
15. If a “title†hurts anyone in the process — and if you know it does — is that enough to stop using that title or is the title more important? If it actually hurts- yes.
1. Agree/Disagree: I think it is okay to call people who are not actually my aunt or uncle by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
Yes. My (and my sister’s) godparents, each a lovely, slightly older, “mentor-type couple” to my parents, are referred to as Aunt and Uncle.
2. Agree/Disagree: I think it’s okay for my children to do the same thing.
I don’t have kids, but I could possibly see doing the same thing.
3. T/F: My kids actually do call — or I would let them call — my friends by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
Yeah, see above.
4. If you answered True, do/would these titles apply to all your friends? If not, why not?
No, because not all my friends are close enough to be “relatives.”
5. If you answered False to #3, why don’t/wouldn’t you allow your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So?
Because they’re not.
6. If you allow — or would allow — your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle,†would you let them do this in the presence of their real aunt or uncle?
Mmm…potentially. I’m trying to think about the last time my godmother and an actual aunt were in the same place. I think as long as “real” Aunt and Uncle are fine with it/aware of it, then it’s fine.
7. A step-parent scenario: Is is appropriate for a kid to call a step-parent “Mom†or “Dad� I’m asking. I really don’t know.
I think that just depends on the individual people and circumstances. Kind of like, do you call your mother-in-law “Mom”?
8. Another step scenario: Your wife died. You’ve remarried. You have adult daughters who call your wife, their stepmom, “Mom.†There is less than 10 years’ difference in age between your new wife and your daughters. Calling her “Mom†— appropriate or not?
Gosh, I don’t know. I probably wouldn’t. But I guess, again if the individuals and circumstances worked, then, whatevs.
9. Does it dishonor your dead spouse to have your grown kids call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad�
I don’t think so, at least not necessarily. I feel like this is something that, regardless, requires lots of communication by all parties around the whole thing.
10. What about younger kids? Is it okay for them to call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad†if your first spouse is deceased?
Yeah, especially with little-little kids, where “stepmom” is basically the only mom they’ve ever known One of my girlfriends’ mom died when she was like 4, and dad got remarried fairly shortly thereafter. She calls her stepmom “Mom” with no qualms whatsoever.
11. Who decides what a step-parent is called? The bio parent or the step-parent? Or the kids??
I think it’s a group conversation, so we can all agree on something that works for everybody.
12. A grandparent scenario: Your grown kids have no kids. You’re not a grandparent. You allow the kids of other people to call you “Grandma†and “Grandpa†in front of your adult childless kids. You really want to be grandma or grandpa, so is this okay or not okay?
Probably not, unless the adult childless kids are okay with it.
13. Another grandparent scenario: Same parameters as above, but you list these same non-related kids as your “granddaughters†or “grandsons†on your Facebook page. Okay or not okay?
No. This is just weird.
14. What is your philosophy of “titles� I mean, who gets to call who what when there is no actual relation? (Horribly phrased, forgive me, but I think you know what I mean.) And who decides?
Well, in a perfect world, everybody kind of decides together. I think, in general, the person who is most comfortable with greater formality. If you want your kids to call non-related adults Mr. and Mrs., then you overrule “oh just call me Aunt Sally…” Likewise, if non-related adults want to be called Mr. or Mrs. by the neighborhood kids, then parents need to defer to that. Kids should never be forced to call someone who is not their mom, “Mom,” against their will. Ever. When grandbabies are born, it seems like a good conversation to have, are you Grandma and Grandpa or Nana and Papa, etc…
15. If a “title†hurts anyone in the process — and if you know it does — is that enough to stop using that title or is the title more important?
Stop. There is very little in this world worth deliberately hurting other people over.
I tend to agree, too, if the children are young when the parent dies, it’s perfectly okay to call the step-parent mom or dad. I guess it just gets a bit squinky for me when the kids are adults.
Tracey – see, I really do have a problem with your In-Laws putting you throug that. Because you are pretty open about your feelings so I know there is no confusion. And you don’t spend ALL your time with them. That means that they have parts of their lives in which you do not participate and in those parts of their life – I’m okay with them having some type of surrogate relationship with kids who are a part of their world. But their first priority should be to protect you and their son from any hurt that could cause you. Maybe they do feel the lack of grandchildren sorely – but if so, they should stop and realize that what you and your husband experience emotionally over that issue is a million times more acute and warrants their support and sensitivity.
As far as the disrespect – here’s the thing: the person who gives birth to you isn’t always the person who raises you. And the person who raises you isn’t always the person who nurtures you. I know people treat childbirth and the miracle of life with a certain awe and it IS a miracle and it IS great suffering to create life. But it’s only a very small part of what a mother is. I think that children (adult or youth) have the right to address the parent who nurtures them as “mom” or “dad” without regard to shared blood OR the status of other parents. My stepmother nurtured me. She made my lunches. She listend to m talk about boys. She took me to the doctor. She tried to protect me from things that were hurtful and tried to teach me to be a good person. THe woman who gave birth to me barely took care of me. She leaned on me for support, but never tried to be a mother. I only refer to her as such because she gave birth to me and, I am told, was a good mother to me during my infancy. I don’t really remember any of that, but I respect that impact on my early life by calling her “Mother” …but my stepmother deserves the title just as much. And so she is my “mom”.
Oh, and I totally love that JFH’s kids are taught to use proper military titls and titles for politicians. I think that people who serve their country or community in military, law enforcement or government should be treated with respect not only because of the work they do but also because it teaches children to respect what they represent – our country, the laws of our land and our democratic process. I love that, JFH.
I feel funny that this is such an emotional issue for me. I guess what a lot of our differences boil down to this: Who are your family? Who has been there for you and filled those needs? Are they all blood relations? If you don’t have adoptive family or step-relations, you are probably more likely to view “real family” titles as being more sacred. And if your needs for a nurturing environment and support have always been met by a family of blood relations who take their roles in your life seriously – that is AWESOME. But there are a lot of people like me, who have blended families and have had to redefine what family MEANS in our worlds. And I’m one of the lucky ones, I have had people who are not related to me by blood choose to take their surrogate familial role in my life seriously. Some people never have strong familial ties OR don’t have family at all. Some people have to build their own. It redefines these titles when you have to look at them differently in your own life.
Marisa — All your points are so well-taken. Really. My only issue on the step-parent/”Mom” issue I raised is that the Mom who died raised these women to become the women they have become. She WAS their mom, in every way. I have no problem with stepmom/young-enough-to-be-sister having a special title, but I’m not sure she’s deserving of “Mom.”
Your step-mom nurtured you and acted more like a mom in your life so that makes a huge difference to me on whether she should be called “Mom.” She should.
Maybe for me it’s just a question of who’s actually earned that title.
I absolutely agree that it shouldn’t be automatic. My issue is that it being disrespectful isn’t automatic, either. If their father has remarried, you friend(s) should be given the freedom to get to know the woman who is his new wife and decide for themselves what role they are comfortable with her playing. I do think it’s a title that you earn. And that type of relationship may or may not develop. Forcing any title always seems like a bad idea to me. If it doesn’t look like a duck or feel like a duck or quack like a duck – no amount of calling something a duck will make it a duck. 😉
My children would call you “Miss Tracey” if you came to our house. Your husband would be “Mister MB” (or realname). It’s always proper to address adults with “Miss” or “Mister” and their first names. Oddly, preschoolers here are to call their teacher “Miss Paula,” but “Miss Paula” becomes “Mrs. Smith” when she teaches kindergarten or first grade, when she suddenly gains a surname.
The “mom” thing I don’t have any idea about. Though I do know of older children who have been adopted who call both mothers “Mom” or one the native word for mother from their home country and their American Mom… is Mom. 🙂
I’ve really enjoyed the thoughtful discussion. I know I’m late to the party, but for what it’s worth. . .
1. Agree/Disagree: I think it is okay to call people who are not actually my aunt or uncle by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
Agree, at least for myself. I have an “Aunt R” who is not my aunt (we are distantly related in actuality) but she has a special relationship with my family (predating my parents’ relationship, actually). I believe the title was adopted to show some sort of respect by us kids.
2. Agree/Disagree: I think it’s okay for my children to do the same thing.
Agreed in theory–at the very least, I’d do SOMETHING to acknowledge both the relationship and the respect due them as adults.
3. T/F: My kids actually do call — or I would let them call — my friends by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
I’d probably play it by ear, depending on what the person wanted to be called but also maintaining the respect mentioned above.
4. If you answered True, do/would these titles apply to all your friends? If not, why not?
It’s probably case-by-case.
5. If you answered False to #3, why don’t/wouldn’t you allow your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So? See #4
6. If you allow — or would allow — your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle,†would you let them do this in the presence of their real aunt or uncle?
My sibs probably would be cool with it–we have always been on/off with using aunt/uncle with our own aunts/uncles b/c our mom is the oldest of 7 and there’s a significant age difference between her and the younger sibs. I don’t think my sister likes being called aunt, to tell you the truth. I do but it’s part of a family nickname my niece coined.
7. A step-parent scenario: Is is appropriate for a kid to call a step-parent “Mom†or “Dad� I’m asking. I really don’t know.
My oldest nephew (from my SIL’s previous marriage) does call my brother “Dad” now that Bro and SIL are married; I think it’s for practical purposes–they have main custody of him and they have three other significantly younger children together who use “Daddy.” I think Oldest Nephew uses a different name for his father that he’s used since babyhood, though. These things evolve out of necessity.
8. Another step scenario: Your wife died. You’ve remarried. You have adult daughters who call your wife, their stepmom, “Mom.†There is less than 10 years’ difference in age between your new wife and your daughters. Calling her “Mom†— appropriate or not?
It’s probably rare that adult kids would use that title. I work with someone who married a significantly older widower with grown kids and I’m 99% sure his kids address her by her first name. I can find out for sure and let you know.
9. Does it dishonor your dead spouse to have your grown kids call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad�
Does that really happen? Did the grown kids have a bad/broken relationship with the deceased spouse and maybe that would make it O.K.?
10. What about younger kids? Is it okay for them to call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad†if your first spouse is deceased? If they were really young kids when the remarriage happened, maybe that’s what is best. I can’t say for sure.
11. Who decides what a step-parent is called? The bio parent or the step-parent? Or the kids?? Ideally, a joint decision, but IMHO the parents should have the ultimate say if no agreement can be reached or the kids are too young. I am not sure how the whole thing happened with my brother, because before they were married my oldest nephew called him by his first name (caveat: many things wrong with how the whole relationship was carried on, so YMMV) but I’m guessing it was because the subsequent children used “Daddy.”
12. A grandparent scenario: Your grown kids have no kids. You’re not a grandparent. You allow the kids of other people to call you “Grandma†and “Grandpa†in front of your adult childless kids. You really want to be grandma or grandpa, so is this okay or not okay?
Well. . . how did it happen? I don’t think I would tell other people’s kids to call ME “Grandma,” but if they started doing it. . . I dunno, I might be flattered and not realize that it could offend my own children. (I worry sometimes that I’ll get old and just not be aware of anybody, a total space cadet. Seriously.)
13. Another grandparent scenario: Same parameters as above, but you list these same non-related kids as your “granddaughters†or “grandsons†on your Facebook page. Okay or not okay?
That’s taking it a bit too far IMO. It’s one thing to do it in your home, but not on a public forum like Facebook.
That said, we had a weird situation where my parents started doing that with Oldest Nephew after Niece came along, to make him not left out (and also they were the only “family” in the area). It was a totally awkward and scandalous, precarious situation, and I hope nobody else ever has to go through what we did.
14. What is your philosophy of “titles� I mean, who gets to call who what when there is no actual relation? (Horribly phrased, forgive me, but I think you know what I mean.) And who decides?
I think there should be titles involved between adults and children who are not related or are related a bit more distantly. I’m probably not explaining that right. Like the example of “Aunt R.” above. Another example: When my second cousins were little, they called my mom (their first cousin once removed) “Cousin [her first name]” to distinguish that their mom could call my mom, her first cousin, by her first name, but it was respectful by both relationship and age for them to use “Cousin [her first name].” I think they still might now that they are over 18, but I’m not sure. When I was a kid, I had friends in the neighborhood who called their (adult) next-door neighbors by their first names–and it was awkward for me, because I lived around the corner but I called them Mr. and Mrs. and was treated VERY differently. But that could’ve been because I was fat.
15. If a “title†hurts anyone in the process — and if you know it does — is that enough to stop using that title or is the title more important?
Awareness would be the conditional factor–if I did find out there was a problem, I would figure out an alternative and transition it over.
That said, and this is personal thing I wish I could get over–I can’t stand it when my niece talks about her one aunt on my SIL’s side, because it’s always, “Aunt X, my GODMOTHER,”–never just “Aunt X,” and said in such a worshipful way. And it’s a harsh reminder that I got passed over three times, but she’s six and has no idea.
I’m even later to the party, but I’m intrigued.
1. Agree/Disagree: I think it is okay to call people who are not actually my aunt or uncle by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
I actually never thought of this as something to consider until you brought it up. My dad’s best friend from childhood is Uncle Book, and his wife is Aunt Sarah, and I don’t remember them ever being called anything else. Pretty sure my sister didn’t come up with it, either. Book isn’t even Uncle Book’s first name. It never occurred to me there was anything strange about that until now. Huh.
My mom has a foster-brother, quite a bit older than she, who is also an uncle, his wife is an aunt, and we referred to the kids of all of the people in question as cousins.
I’m trying to think if there are any others. Toby was my real uncle, even though he wasn’t the father of my mother’s sister’s kids, and we never called him Uncle Toby. Meamwhile, Uncle Chuck, their biological father, is a shmuck, and has kind of, but not entirely, been demoted to just Chuck.
We have a large circle of family friends tat have been around for every important family event since ever, and they all seem like aunts, uncles, and cousins. I’m not sure why only some of them actually got honorifics. Just happened organically, I guess.
2. Agree/Disagree: I think it’s okay for my children to do the same thing.
You know what’s sad? I don’t have any friends of my own that are close enough that I would even consider encouraging an honorary title.
Actually, that’s not true. there’s one. But I don’t think calling him Uncle would feel normal. I guess if our kid decides to call him that for some reason, and he’s okay with it, I wouldn’t have a problem.
3. T/F: My kids actually do call — or I would let them call — my friends by the title “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So.
N/A
4. If you answered True, do/would these titles apply to all your friends? If not, why not?
Well, see above, I guess.
5. If you answered False to #3, why don’t/wouldn’t you allow your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle†So and So?
I think it’s got to be an open negotiation between all the parties involved, with emphasis on what name my friend prefers, and what name my someday kid is comfortable with.
6. If you allow — or would allow — your kids to call your friends “Aunt†or “Uncle,†would you let them do this in the presence of their real aunt or uncle?
Sure. But as I’ve mentioned, this practise is already part of my family culture. I doubt my sister thinks about it much. As for my sister-in-law, well, I don’t really care what she thinks, and we’re never around her anyway (but that’s another story.)
7. A step-parent scenario: Is is appropriate for a kid to call a step-parent “Mom†or “Dad� I’m asking. I really don’t know.
Well, my dad’s brother’s step-kids call him Dad, and it seems fine– especially since their biological father cut them loose and my uncle raised them from when they were young. Except for genetics, he was their dad.
Going back to Toby– my cousins never called him Dad, and I know they talked about what to call him. He said something about loving them, but never wanting them to feel like he was trying to replace their father. So they called him Toby. But it was a very affectionate use of his name.
I don’t have step-parents, but I call my in-laws by their first names (used to call them Mr. and Mrs.—, until J and I got engaged.) I felt strongly opposed to calling them Mom and Dad, because, well, I already have a Mom and a Dad– and my in-laws are formal, reserved people– no other affectionate monikers ever suggested themselves to me.
8. Another step scenario: Your wife died. You’ve remarried. You have adult daughters who call your wife, their stepmom, “Mom.†There is less than 10 years’ difference in age between your new wife and your daughters. Calling her “Mom†— appropriate or not?
Not if it hurts your feelings, not if it makes step-mom or daughters uncomfortable or unhappy. But otherwise, it could be seen as a warm way to include her as part of the family. And if she is called Mom, the suggestion for that should come from the daughters first– they shouldn’t feel pressured in any way to call her that.
9. Does it dishonor your dead spouse to have your grown kids call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad�
Not if it’s done openly and affectionately, with the assent of all parties involved.
10. What about younger kids? Is it okay for them to call your new spouse “Mom†or “Dad†if your first spouse is deceased?
Yes (still see above.) But in a way, I think it would be harder for me, as a widowed husband, to hear my young kids calling step-mom “Mom,” instead of some other affectionate title– I think… I might be sad at the thought that their mother, who would have loved them and raised them if she could have, was being forgotten.
On the other hand, I might feel blessed that my kids had a possibility to experience the love of a mother, even after losing their own.
It’s weird, that the grown children pose less of an issue for me on an emotional level– it’s… I guess I trust older children not to forget their biological mother– that they’re old enough/sophisticated enough in their thinking to use that title for two women without confusing them. I’m not sure that makes any sense.
11. Who decides what a step-parent is called? The bio parent or the step-parent? Or the kids??
I think ideally it should be between the step-parent and the kids to decide what makes them all happy.
12. A grandparent scenario: Your grown kids have no kids. You’re not a grandparent. You allow the kids of other people to call you “Grandma†and “Grandpa†in front of your adult childless kids. You really want to be grandma or grandpa, so is this okay or not okay?
This sounds like it would be really hurtful to your grown kids– unless those kids were devoutly child-free.
There’s a whole universe of affectionate monikers out there. Why not choose something else?
Still, my sister has friends that are my parents’ generation– a married couple that never had kids, who often watched my nephew when he was a baby, while my sister was working on her dissertation.
She refers to them as foster-grandparents, and I think refers to them when she’s talking about them with her kids as Granny Tam and Grampa Shawn.
I don’t know if my nephews call them that, though.
But their biological grandparents are referred to as NiNi and PopPop, and Mema and PopPop, respectively, so it’s not like anyone’s title is being usurped, anyway.
(note– my sister and I were really hoping to get the nephews to refer to my mom, whose nickname is Noellie, as Granoli. We thought that was funny. But Nephew #1 decided it would be NiNi, and thus it has stayed.
–sometimes it really doesn’t matter what you want your kids to call people; they’ve got their own ideas.)
13. Another grandparent scenario: Same parameters as above, but you list these same non-related kids as your “granddaughters†or “grandsons†on your Facebook page. Okay or not okay?
Confusing, and possibly cruel.
14. What is your philosophy of “titles� I mean, who gets to call who what when there is no actual relation? (Horribly phrased, forgive me, but I think you know what I mean.) And who decides?
I’m not really sure who decides– in my experience this sort of thing seems to arrive organically somehow. Ideally, no one’s being forced to call someone something, and no one’s been dubbed with an honorific they hate.
I had a hard time when I reached adulthood, and many of my parents’ friends, who had previously been known as Mr.s and Mrs.s, wanted me to call them by their first names. Over a decade and a half into proper adulthood, and I still slip up. My parents were pretty strict that adults and authority figures were addressed formally– with above-noted exceptions.
It’s not a bad practice. But honestly, I think sometimes my formal approach, which has spilled over into my working life, makes me seem stilted and out-of-date. We’ll have to figure this out as we go, when it comes to the kidlet.
15. If a “title†hurts anyone in the process — and if you know it does — is that enough to stop using that title or is the title more important?
Well, Marisa’s example of her mother and stepmother, and their relative honorifics, seems sensitive and appropriate. But generally I think it’s better to drop an unnecessary honorific if it hurts the feelings of someone you love.
Great questions, Tracey.
And great answers, everyone else– lots of important food for thought.
Update to #8: I did ask my co-worker, and she said that her husband’s adult kids have always called her by her first name and definitely not “Mom.”
Thanks, roo!
Roo’s addendum to #12 (//sometimes it really doesn’t matter what you want your kids to call people; they’ve got their own ideas//) made me think of some of the funny ways that has come up in my own family. Kids really do settle on a name and then it STICKS.
My mom (technically step-mom) wanted a cute grandparent name to be used by her grandkids but she changed her mind a lot about it. MOST of the time she tried to get the babies to call her “Gigi” but it was so inconsistent and my sister would refer to her as “your grandmother” when talking to her two kids. They eventually settled on “Grandma” on their own. She thought this made her sound old and would get irritable about it.
One day she just exclaimed to my (then 10 year old) niece, “Why do you call me GRANDMA?”
My niece – completely deadpan – replied, “Because it’s YOUR NAME!”
My mom now has a great-grandbaby who calls her “Gigi” – but THEIR mommy still calls her “Grandma” 🙂
This has little to do with anything, but a week or so ago, a waitress called me “Ma’am.”
I felt ancient. It actually sent me into a mini-existentialist downward spiral.
I had no idea I would react so strongly to no longer being called “Miss,” until it happened.
And for some reason, in NYC at least, it feels like “Ma’am” is just a polite way to say “bitch.”
I realize this is all highly irrational…
roo — Great answers. I call my in-laws by their first names, too, for the same reason as you. I already have a mom and dad. It seems to irritate my MIL, but honestly, my own mother is enough to deal with. Calling another woman “Mom” just seems to — I don’t know — make me feel burdens that I don’t want to feel.
And the Ma’am thing — Ugh. I hate that too. It’s not irrational at all. I think it says that the person addressing me as such identifies me as older than they, and even if I am, it’s hard to hear because I don’t feel old. I don’t “feel” like a “Ma’am.” I want to be addressed by a title that expresses what I think I am, not what THEY think I am. (So I guess there is a teensy bit of the irrational in it.)
By contrast, the other day, the bagging dude at the supermarket called me “Miss” and I almost wanted to start making out with him.
Re- the in-laws–
After J moved in with me, his mother (whom he addresses as “Mom”), a big fan of sending cards and little packages in the mail, suddenly began signing her letters, “Love, Mommie.”
Is this a little creepy?
I might just be thinking that because it was around that time that she informed me, at a dinner out on the town with her and her son, that when he breast-fed he was “a snacker.”
Was MIL acting a little threatened/weirdly possessive, or am I reading into this?
Roo’s GiGi story reminded me of my grandmother, who was only 36 when my brother was born. (She was 18 when she had my dad, and my dad was 18 when N was born, so. . . yeah.)
She was NOT going to be ANYONE’S “Grandma,” so she said she wanted N to call her “Cynthia.” (Her name was Doris.) It didn’t take. (Wonder why!)
What DID take was Do-Do. Because my grandfather called her Do, short for Doris. I think she’d rather have been Grandma, frankly.