when bad actors go good

Okay. Not the best title, but I hate coming up with post titles.

A comment thread between Sheila and me on one of her posts the other day set me a’thinkin’. She’d written a great post about Something’s Gotta Give, one of the movies in her ongoing series of “Underrated Movies.” And in the midst of all the rightful acclaim of the performances of Keaton and Nicholson and McDormand and Peet, Sheila and I worked ourselves into a frenzy of commendation of Keanu Reeves’ performance in the film. (I say “commendation,” because, well, it IS Keanu Reeves and one shouldn’t overstate one’s enthusiasm — like we did yesterday!) Hahaha! We went on and on about how he’d “improved” and “grown” and “strrretched.”

But, oh, we are NOT condescending. We are sincere, as Sheila said.

At one point in the comments, I said I felt differently about him as an actor because of that one performance. Then I got to thinkin’ about something. I thought about the various actors and actresses over the years that I’d thought were mediocre or simply rotten or that I’d just blatantly disliked for one capricious reason or another. Then I thought about which of these same actors or actresses had had, in my opinion, a turning point, a moment where, after years of performances I’d deemed lackluster or stomach-turning, they’d finally shown that they HAD it or had SOMETHING and it had finally come out on film. A moment of redemption where Jesus came and saved us both from their bad acting.

So, of course, I HAD to make a list and I want yours, too.

A list of 10 actors/actresses who’ve had, in your opinion ……. The Turning Point.

Here’s mine (and some I’ll have more to say about than others, just based on memory, I guess).

Anyway, TA-DA:

1. Well, Keanu Reeves, since he inspired this whole thing. Keanu Reeves, Something’s Gotta Give. Smart, tender, not wooden for once, a real person, sexy, even. I’ve always thought his voice is a detriment to him. It’s not expressive, so he must rely more on his face, his eyes, which are nice, actually. I loved his empathy in this role, his playfulness, that he really did love her and then loved her enough to let her go with her true love. Turning Point for me, Mr. Reeves!

2. Kim Basinger, L.A. Confidential. Um, this was a HUGE one, I think. Because wasn’t she pretty much a joke in Hollywood before this? All those lame movies with Richard Gere. I remember the only thing I thought of her was that she had a bad voice and pretty hair. Well, she was a Breck girl once. But, sweet LORD, as the hooker “cut” to look like Veronica Lake, she’s canny, but quiet about it; sexy, but quiet about it. She sees things are they are, sees Bud as he really is, but again, she’s not pushy about anything and for me, that makes everything about her performance more intense. Nothing she does is overt and that’s the beauty of it. Turning Point!

3. Salma Hayak, Frida. Now, I’ll say that I ALWAYS thought Salma Hayak was one of the flat-out sexiest actresses in Hollywood. A pint-sized siren. And I liked her, but kept hoping for something more from her. Frida was that turning point to me. She could not possibly have been more “other” than she was in this part. Stripped of the burden of being sexy, she just burned as Kahlo — with her pain, with her loves, with her art — I don’t know how else to say it. She totally surrendered to being Frida. She just burned up that screen.

4. Woody Harrelson, The Prize Winner of Defiance, Ohio. Yeah, he was that dumb bunny Woody in Cheers and all and everybody seemed to love that character, but I’ve never liked him. Something about his face. It just ….. makes me want to kill him. I feel violent when I look at him. It’s completely irrational. Oh, and yeah, I hear he was great in “The People vs. Larry Flynt,” but I’ve never seen it, so I can’t choose that as my Turning Point for him. No. My Turning Point with him came in “The Prize Winner of Defiance, Ohio” and while Julianne Moore carries that movie, Harrelson was reborn in my eyes. His character is a drunk and abusive and, overall, just a loser, but he has these moments of shame about who he is, moments of awareness.

Oh, there’s one …. well, I’ll just share it, to the best of my memory. Moore and Harrelson have all these kids, like 8 or something, and he doesn’t make enough money and what money he does make, he spends on booze. She enters product jingle contests and through her winnings — of things like shopping sprees and bikes and one-year supplies of this and that — she keeps the family afloat. And he knows that and can’t stand it. So one day, she wins one of those “grab all you can in 10 minutes” grocery store sprees. She asks him, “What do you want me to get for you, Dad?” He says nothing. “How ’bout one of those shrimp cocktails? I’ll get you one of those big shrimp cocktails.” So she has the spree, grabs a bunch of stuff. Later, at home, the whole family is sampling all the exotic foods they usually don’t eat. They’re pigging out on hearts of palm and caviar. But Dad stands in the corner, not participating. (I can’t remember now if he’s standing there eating Spam from a can or something. That seems right.) He’s ashamed; he’s jealous; he can’t join in or he’ll feel less than. He’s the dark cloud in the room, but Mom pointedly, cheerfully ignores his darkness. Moore is BRILLIANT in this scene. Finally, she offers him the shrimp cocktail. He takes it, reluctantly, still standing in the corner. Then he TURNS AROUND, back to her and his whole family, and starts to eat it. That moment …. Turning Point. I don’t know why. The shame in the face of her grace. It killed me.

5. Sharon Stone, Casino. Yes, Sharon Stone. Miss I’m So Sexy and So Smart and So Opinionated and I Reject Underwear and That Last One is the ONLY REASON I’M FAMOUS. Yes, THAT Sharon Stone. Now, this is where I cop out. I saw Casino once — what? — 10 years ago and don’t remember much EXCEPT that she blew me away for once. I saw that she had some acting chops, even if I’ve never seen them since. And maybe that’s part of The Turning Point concept, too. That you did see it — even if it was only once. I think she was nominated for an Oscar for this one, so SOMEone else must have seen it, too. All right. You guys can help me on this one. If you saw it, HELP me remember WHY, specifically, she was so great. (Well, only if you thought she was.) Still, memory problems aside, I stand by her as one of my choices — hahaha! — which is lame.

6. Michael Douglas, Falling Down. Okay. God help me, I had never been a huge fan. And I know he produced One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest and won the Best Actor Oscar for Wall Street. Still, he made me weary. He was either playing the arrogant, preening ass as in Wall Street or the modern man victimized or manipulated by woman, Fatal Attraction, Basic Instinct. *YAWN*. I always found him simpering, self-conscious. Watching him made me irritated, then sleepy. To me, there was this undercurrent of entitlement throughout his acting: “Look at me! I’m a Golden Son of Hollywood and I have a jutty chin and I AM AAWESOME! I have genetic rights to your rapt attention to my ACTING! WATCH MEEE! WATCH MY JUTTY CHIN!!” Shut. Up. Gekko.

Okay. So I think we’ve established I didn’t like him.

Then I saw Falling Down and apologized to him, repeatedly and profusely, during the entire movie: I’m sorry, Michael Douglas. Forgive me, Michael Douglas. I would give you that Womlette, if I could. I swear. Seriously, his performance brought me to my knees and I thoroughly repented. My Lord. The sadness of that performance. I mean, he goes insane, basically, but he is SO desperately sad. I ache just writing about him in that movie, because how many times have each of us felt we are one last thread away from a complete unravel? How many times have each of us contemplated just GOING OFF like that, raging, in a tangible way, against the invisibility we so often feel? That irrelevance and purposelessness he felt touched the same in me. Ach. It was so painful and so cathartic, too. (Man, I need to see this one again!) Douglas was not some preening or self-conscious or masked “Actor” here. No. He was an ugly and sad and desperate everyman, really. And he just wanted a Womlette and some WomFries, for God’s sake! Sorry, Michael Douglas. BIG Turning Point in our relationship. AND I’ve liked you since then: Traffic, The Game, Wonder Boys. So …. well …. good for you ….. And I am NOT condescending …. hahaha …. ha …..

7. Halle Berry, Monster’s Ball. She’s always been beautiful, but that’s all I considered her: Beautiful. Great figure, perfect skin, chic hair. Big deal. But Monster’s Ball changed that for me. She was so raw and so broken, you practically squirm through that entire movie. She went where the character had to go and went there fearlessly and without reservation. I don’t think she’s been as good since. Drat that Best Actress curse. Still, Turning Point, Halle Berry.

8. Eric Roberts, Runaway Train. Yes, The Lesser Roberts, Julia’s brother. Mostly considered a joke and a loser. Then Runaway Train came out in 1985 and he was astonishingly good. I remember when I saw it, I was … yes, astonished. He has such a bad rep, he and Julia don’t get along, he’s hard to work with, etc., etc. But here, I think he finally found the right part for his particular quirks and intensities, playing a savage, impetuous escaped con, a man who operates on instinct, doesn’t care about consequences. This movie is an adventure, but not in an overblown, let’s- just-blow-something-up way. It’s spare, raw, character-driven. You’ve got Roberts; then you’ve got Jon Voight as his fellow escaped con and Rebecca DeMornay as the crew member on this runaway train. It’s a nail biter, but just as much from the interpersonal peril inside as from the physical peril outside. Plus, there’s a real doozy of an ending, too. The best work I’ve ever seen Eric Roberts do. He was nominated for Best Supporting Actor. This is Mr. Roberts’ only Turning Point, I’m afraid.

9. William Hurt, Broadcast News. I know, I know, some of you are probably saying ‘what?!’ I mean, the guy’s been nominated for an Oscar how many times? I don’t even know the number. Several. He was just nominated this year for A History of Violence, Tracey, for Pete’s sake! One of our most lauded actors, etc. But remember, I said one of the criteria for The Turning Point could be someone you blatantly dislike for one capricious reason or another. Well, William Hurt fits that for me. I just dislike him. I have blatant hostility towards him. It makes NO sense. He may be a truly wonderful person, volunteer at soup kitchens and adopt stray cats and help old gammies across the street ….. and yet, I still dislike him. So, you see, much like my general distaste for Woody Harrelson, it has a solid foundation based on no firsthand knowledge whatsoever. I dunno. To me, he seems to have absolutely NO sense of humor. He is quite in earnest about himself and expects everyone else to be, too. I asked My Beloved about him and he said it best, perhaps: “He just seems …… malignant.” That’s it! He has a malignant, depressive, needs-more-bran vibe. He speaks as if it’s a taxing effort for him, and, because of this great effort, what spills forth must be deemed a great favor to you, an unexpected blessing. Just writing this, I’m feeling my blood pound … about William Hurt, someone I don’t know and will never know! It’s utterly stoopid. Still, I imagine being around him would make me want to kill myself. But that’s just me.

Okay. So I think we’ve established that I don’t like him. But then again ….

I love him in Broadcast News! He is SO delightfully dumb as the anchorman who admits that he sometimes doesn’t “get” the news he’s reporting. He’s hilarious, vacant, following Holly Hunter around, wanting to “pick her brain,” all because he doesn’t really have one himself. I’m telling you, the first time I saw that movie, I literally felt like I was watching him move his emotional bowels. So freeing! That movie is William Hurt’s BIG BRAN MUFFIN. I LOVED him. For 2 hours, I loved him. Turning Point, however short-lived!

Okay. My last one. Hm. There are several I could choose, actually, like Tom Cruise or Julia Roberts. I suppose could pick one or two performances from those two that I’ve liked. But they’re easy marks. He’s a nutter and she’s, well, mostly overrated, shall we say? So no, I’m not picking them. And no, I didn’t just squeeze them in here like some kind of cheat. How dare you even suggest that?? No, I think I’m picking:

10. Jamie Foxx, Collateral. Yeah, well. Look, I never watched In Living Color. I never followed his standup career. I was out of the loop, I guess. I didn’t see anything there, really, acting-wise. “Oh, a comedian turned actor. How …. new.” And then, two years ago, he won Best Actor for Ray. Okay, fine. I saw that, thought it was good, but wasn’t nearly as taken with it as some. I dunno. He just didn’t make me say “WOW” with that one. Nope. The performance he should have won for was the one he was also nominated for that year: His supporting role in Collateral. There, he plays Max, a cab driver with a dream to start his own limo service “someday” who ends up spending his evening chauffeuring a hit man (Tom Cruise) to his various ‘appointments.’ Jamie Foxx has to play a man who basically sits on his butt for a living and I love how that seems to play against Jamie Foxx’s natural energy, his intense physicality. Here, he’s subdued, his evenings driving around give him time to think and dream. And he has dreams, but he’s in a rut and has been for a long time. During this evening, Vincent, the hit man, challenges him about his life, actually engages him in philosophical conversation, as they’re driving hither and yon so Vincent can kill people. It’s surreal-ish, and yet you buy it because it’s really a character study, a dialog between two completely different men who aren’t completely what they seem to be. I love that at one point, Foxx’s character is required to run — fast — and yet his characterization is so complete, he runs as a man who doesn’t run. He runs like a cabbie who sits on his butt all day dreaming of other things. He’s just lovely in this movie, really. Subdued and unexpected and dreamy. Shoulda won for that one. Turning Point, Mr. Foxx! Actually, 2 that year, I have to say.

All riiiiighty! That’s my big ol’ rambling list. Let’s hear it from you guys now. I gotta work early in the morning, so that gives y’all some time to come up with some gooood’uns!

(WHY am I talking like I’m from the South?? Seriously, I’ve spent tooo long on this post. Nighty-night. Y’all.)

25 Replies to “when bad actors go good”

  1. I am so with you on William Hurt. Not as a turning point, but as an actor I don’t like. I’ve just never been able to believe any of the characters he’s portraying. I always see it as William Hurt brooding and doing some accent. Can’t get over it.

  2. I hesitate to even post this, because I am so hopelessly behind the times in these matters, but …

    For me, it was Johnny Depp in Finding Neverland. Unlike most people, I have never been able to eradicate the image of Johnny Depp as a cop/narc on 21 Jump Street from my consciousness. “Johnny Depp got nominated for an Oscar? That guy from 21 Jump Street?” was pretty much my thinking until I saw Finding Neverland. I didn’t see Johnny Depp while watching that movie, nor Johnny Depp playing Sir James Matthew Barrie … I SAW Sir James Matthew Barrie. I was blown away.

    I’m sure his ACTUAL jumping point from bad actor to Oscar-worthy Actor happened long before this movie, but this was it for me.

    Now I need to backtrack and see what I’ve been missing all these years.

  3. sniff, sniff … I left a huge blithering excited comment and it appears to have been lost in cyberspace.

    Great great post, Tracey!

  4. Dang, Girl! WHY did you send me to red’s blog?
    I will never escape from there, ever!

    Didn’t realize you were “red”, Sheila…

    Tracey, total agreement re: Kim Basinger (I was like, “Whoa -where did THAT come from?”) and the appeal of Harrelson in “Prizewinner”.

    I’m trying to think of anyone else that’s overrated or that I viscerally dislike, but it’s hard.

    Does it count if they have just the one role and then you can dislike them again?

  5. Okay,
    Renee Zelwegger was in a little film called “The Whole Wide World”, in which she played the small-town school teacher girlfriend of Robert Howard and was quite good. So, perhaps that’s why her succeeding career has been disappointing.

    Gwyneth Paltrow in “Emma”

    Tom Cruise in “Far and Away”

    Mel Gibson in “The Singing Detective” – not that I have anything against someone playing the same character(s) again and again. So this may not count, but it was really a different Mel.

    My criteria, kind of like Jeanine’s, is – if you can make me forget I’m watching you – the actor/actress – and make me believe in the character, then you get credit.

  6. Sal — Definitely it counts if you only like them in that one role. That’s William Hurt for me. I mean, I know he’s considered a fine fine actor and yet …. I just can’t …. ugh … but “Broadcast News”? LOVED him!

    red — WHERE is your comment? It didn’t go into moderation; I checked! WHA’HAPPEN? DAMN!!

    Jeannine — Yes, watching Johnny Depp go from 21 Jump Street to the actor he is today has been really amazing. He’s one of my favorites now.

    Cullen — Guess we won’t be doing any William Hurt marathons together, eh?

  7. Tracey – hmmm – I just recreated it, sent it through and it’s still not showing up.

    Now I’m like a terrible high-maintenance commenter.

  8. I bet I figured it out. Did you use the word c-a-s-i-n-o in your comment, by any chance, because of my Sharon Stone reference? A while back, in a spam rage, I put that on my “Nuke” list. Wonder if anyone else has tried to comment on THAT and just given UP!

    SORRY, everyone! I am not tech savvy at all!

  9. hahaha Yes I did!! I thought it might have been my reference to “c-o-c-a-i-n-e” (about the same film) that was the problem.

    Okay – so let me try this again! Thanks for looking into it, tracey – and excellent detective work! Now I feel silly – as though I somehow think that this is the best comment ever made or something.

    1. Thank you for reminding me to see that Prize Winner movie – I head it was terrific but I totally forgot about it!

    2. I saw Runaway Train when I was having an enormous Jon Voight obsession – and Eric Roberts was so so good in that too!! Poor dude. He had been out there shlepping his acting work for years, being good – getting good reviews – and along comes his baby sister – and … well. Who could compete with that??

    3. Sharon Stone’s greatness (for me) in the movie whose name we cannot speak of came from one TEENY moment. Now I liked all of it – I actually like her, I like her funniness (when she is allowed to be funny) – and her intelligence. So she was praised for all her crying, and weeping, and her passion, etc. But my favorite moment of hers in that movie is a small one: She’s sitting with skanky ol’ James Woods somewhere – and she has her little 8 year old daughter with her. Sharon Stone is blatantly doing a line of coke, while James Woods is on the phone yelling at someone – or lighting a cigarette – or doing something else. There’s a lot going on in the moment. Nobody is paying attention to the little girl. Stone leans over, does her line, then pats at her nostril, saying to her daughter, in a bored “oh yeah, I have to say this” voice: “Don’t ever be like your Mommy.”

    A moment like that is a spark of spontaneous genius. So so funny – that was the moment when I thought: Day-um. She’s actually really good.

    4. Absolutely with Jamie Foxx in Collateral. He created a totally real guy. I was really impressed – the movie works because of his still and believable center.

    5. I love Broadcast News. What a movie – and he’s so good in it. I never thought of him as particularly funny – he always seems very serious – and a bit sour. You know – distanced, ironic. LIke The Big Chill. But in that? He was just a shallow guy, who got by on his looks – and it was truly a very funny performance. I was very impressed!!

  10. Hahaha! I solved the mystery! And that it was that OTHER word and not cocaine, haha! I remember I was so MAD when I pounded that word in there, as if it was the WORST WORD EVER. “Dammit, no one is ever gonna say THAT word on my blog AGAIN!” Especially considering the stuff I’ve been getting lately.

    And no problem! I really wanted to see your comment.

    And NOW I remember that moment of hers, totally. She was amazing. Never as good since, don’t you think?

    And THANK YOU for being with me on the Eric Roberts thing. And it’s so sad. I mean, how can he compete with her fabulousness? I almost think he might have MORE to offer as an actor, I sense there’s just more there than she has, but he’s just not been given the chances. Too bad.

    NOW, I want to see your big Turning Point list. Why do you think I wrote this? 😉 I was inspired by our Keanumania! Hahahaha!

  11. Tracey – it’s a rough rough film – but have you seen Star 80? About the Playboy bunny who was murdered? Directed by Bob Fosse?

    Eric Roberts is in it and I am not exaggerating: I think it’s one of the best performances of the entire decade – again, kind of ignored – maybe because there’s something so dangerous and unlikable about him. But man – terrifying performance. He’s a real actor.

    Sadly, I think he’s gone the plastic-surgery route – he looks kinda unrecognizable now.

  12. Sheila, do you get Energy Times in the mail? I don’t know what terrible sin I committed in a past life, but this freakin’ magazine follows me around the continent. Can’t get rid of it.

    Anywho, the most recent issue features Eric Roberts and he goes on and on about how he’s into all these all-natural products and how he’s had to purge his body of all the nasty things he’s done to it over the years (apparently he was a big druggie). But, while all of this may be true, I found it funny in that he so obviously has gone the plastic surgery route and that just makes all the “all-natural salvation purging to my body” talk seem disingenuous.

    You can read it online (just Google “Energy Times” and the article is linked on the front page).

  13. I’ll go check it out!

    Yeah, he sounds a bit, uhm, edgy. Or – er – crazy, maybe is a better word?? If he had found his place as a big ol’ STAR – his craziness wouldn’t matter so much. Craziness is forgiven in stars – but if you’re crazy and you’re in B movies and your sister is the biggest female box office draw of the 20th century? You’ve got some issues.

    You know, it’s sad in a way – because there were maybe 2 or 3 years in the early 80s when he was hailed as the next best thing. Member Pope of Greenwich Village with another genius gone awry- Mickey Rourke? Eric Roberts was AMAZING in that. He reminds me of Dustin Hoffman’s best work. Fearless.

    And then boom. Your baby sister moves to NYC to “be an actress” – with no credits to her name – does Mystic Pizza – gets Pretty Woman – and voila – what happened to you?? Is there room for you? Or will you just be “Julia’s brother” now?

    I’m sure there was a lot more going on there, but still – that can NOT have been easy. I say this as a person who is also in a family with MANY very successful actors. They’re on Broadway, on TV, they’re touring Europe in the new Brian Friel plays, yadda yadda. I’m not successful on that level – and it’s not easy sometimes to not just feel like a big fat LOSER. You KNOW you’re not – but it takes a LOT of work to stay on your own side, be good to yourself, and not compare yourself to others.

    Sorry for yet another comment of novel-length, Tracey!

    And I don’t even know what Energy Times is, Cullen – sorry you can’t seem to escape it. 🙂 Let me go check it out!

  14. I’m waiting for Nicholas Cage to have a “Turning Point.” For the most part, I have enjoyed the movies that he’s in, given a few really bad ones (i.e. The Weatherman), but I think that he’s a terrible actor. Hopefully his turning point comes before he’s too far gone.

  15. Kathi — Sorry Nicolas Cage hasn’t had a Turning Point for you. I’ve always loved him, although, I think that he’s a bit of a nutter in his private life.

    And I did love him in The Weatherman. There’s a scene he has with his daughter (that I’d probably better not describe here) that just kills me.

    Maybe someday he’ll DO it for you! 😉

  16. Matchstick Men!!! I own The Weatherman and haven’t watched it yet; can’t wait to thought. What about Wild at Heart (my personal fav. Nic Cage)?

  17. Oh, red, no, I’ve never seen Star 80. I’ve heard it’s brutal. I’d forgotten Eric Roberts was in that one.

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  19. “Star 80” is why I will never, ever like Eric Roberts, so I guess he did a great job. Every time I see him in a movie, I think (at some level, not always consciously) of the role he played in Star 80 and hate him with a passion that is completely irrational. Does that make “Star 80” his turning point?

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