(Pre-Note — added after initial posting: I confess that I really don’t like my tone in this post. You may not, either. It’s true — I am hurt, upset, confused by this complicated situation, but, not having shared all, I imagine my feelings may sound disproportionate to you, the reader. I’ve thought all day about deleting this post. But I’ve decided to leave it up. As is. Because this is me, frequently sarcastic and unlovely when hurt. I’m ashamed of it, but deleting the post would be hiding from some of the truth of who I truly am. I am slow to process things well and even slower to learn of the Lord. I need His grace so much more than anyone I
know …)
Note: The person mentioned in this post doesn’t read or even know of this blog. Of course, names have been changed. Also, just so you’re prepared, I do swear in this post, using the following shameful words: "hell" and "damn." Why? Because I’m mad and bad and history’s worst monster. Somehow, though, given the topic, they seemed appropriate. So … post as written is rated PG-13. Could be worse, though. Post in my head is rated R.
a n y w a y . . . .
I have a rather, um, bizarre situation in my life. I’d be interested in what you’d say about it.
So pull up a chair, get comfy, and allow me to relay a conversation I had a few months ago with a person I’ve known for many, many years. Let’s call said person Joey. (Conversation edited for clarity. Trust me.)
Went a little something like this:
Joey: There is a demonic stronghold over you and your family that wants to KILL you!!!
Me: (mouth)
Joey: And you need deliverance!!
Me: (hanging)
Joey: Because of all the generational curses!!
Me: (W I D E)
Joey: And I’m willing to risk the relationship on this!!
Me: (open)
Soooo … hmm. You know, I have to say I’ve never had a conversation start with such a big, thuddy brick. ( Hence, my startlingly coherent contribution to the conversation.) Apparently, (says Joey) all the "painful" things that have happened in my life over the last several years are evidence of my demonic infestation. And, also apparently, Joey will not have a relationship with me any longer unless and until I take the stated prescription of "deliverance" prayer. (Oh, and that part was a "word from the Lord.")
All righty.
(And, yes, Joey is a Christian. And, no, Joey doesn’t listen to what the Word has to say on this, choosing instead to rely on scriptures taken completely out of context.)
So, let’s say for argument’s sake that I take my medicine and get "delivered," how then could I empirically prove to Joey that I’m no longer infested, that I’m "demon free"?
I mean, is there a blood test for it?
Maybe an X-ray?
A CAT scan?
Could I skippity-skip down the Yellow Brick Road and get myself one of themthere certificates from the Wizard?
(Um, do I need to get myself a herd of pigs here?)
Oh, wait. Hold on. I’m gettin’ something. The Lord is saying:
I could pee on a stick. You know:
"+" I’m finally pregnant after all these years (but, drat, I’ve got demons and am probably carrying Beelzebub’s baby)
OR
"-" I’m still not pregnant (but, hell, Paw, I’m demon free. Woo-hoo!)
Damn it. (Yep. There it is.) I. am. so. tired. of all this crazy, made-up, so-fantastical-Harry-Potter’s-got-nothin’-on-it, fraudulent Christianity. I’m in the heartbreaking process of losing a long-standing relationship because of it. Understand that any sarcasm here is just a feeble mask to cover how much it does hurt. (And well, what else is sarcasm for? Useful thing, that.)
It’s just so mind-boggling. So maddening. So utterly dangerous. I just don’t understand.
But … it’s quite possible I don’t understand anything anymore.
Guess it’s the demons.
There’s nothing wrong with you — it’s “Joey” and his ilk. I used to live 5 miles from Jim and Tammy Bakker in SC, and I saw a lot of these jokers. Their entire religion is based on the idea that once they’re “saved”, they’re superior to the rest of us. And they treat us with contempt in a juvenile attempt to bully us into joining them (“You wouldn’t want to be left behind, would you?”), while doing pretty much any nasty or depraved thing they want to do. When they get caught, they just dredge up some supernatural excuse for their behavior (“Satan made me do it!”) and make a show of mock repentance, thereby showing how “Christian” and enlightened they are. Classic cult stuff.
In your case, it sounds like “Joey” noticed you’re going through a rough patch and siezed the opportunity to try to convert you. By attributing it to some absurd supernatural reason, he can: 1) offer you a solution that increases his prestige in his community, and 2) prove to you how you’re clearly not one of the “enlightened” like him.
I once had a college roommate like “Joey”. He told me in all earnestness that the only reason he talked to me was because my soul needed saving. Silly me, I talked to people because I enjoyed the social interaction! BTW, this guy at 20 was an ex-heroine addict and general screw-up, while I was a strait-laced, scholarship-wielding virgin math nerd who didn’t even swear, smoke tobacco, or drink–not even lite beer. (My mother once begged me to learn to tolerate frozen daquiris or something so I didn’t stand out so much at parties.)
Don’t fall for Joey’s line. He has no answer, and he’ll just pronounce you “cured” until something bad happens to you again, and then you’ll have to go through the whole process again to cure your “relapse”. His view of your condition, you see, is based on his beliefs, not facts, and he’s clearly willing to believe whatever his insular community tells him, no matter how silly.
Hang in there.
I can only imagine how many demons were crawling all over Jesus — look at what they did to Him?!
It’s a shame to lose a friendship, but then again, what kind of friend refuses to talk to you because you don’t share all his beliefs?
It’s folks like Joey who give Christians (and Christ) a bad name.
Tracey — tell Joey a life free of pain means that you’re dead. Pain is natural in this broken world (not evidence of “demonic infestation”). There’s no way to avoid it in this life.
It’s funny (sad) that some Christians want to eliminate the very thing that Father uses to train and grow us and draw us near to him.
So, I guess the hurt that Joey is causing you will be used by Father for some good purpose.
I know, not exactly comforting when all you want to do is pop him in the nose.
I wonder where you went. And if you don’t mind me sayin’–sounds(reads) like a bit of anger and hurt behind this post. I can understand.
Weird thing is (not that it applies to your situation)after having read Bondage Breakers by Neil Anderson, I gained a bit of insight into demonic activities in families. Let’s just say that I had certain suspicions regarding a certain relationship I was in.
Pee on a stick? ROFL for sure.
“Deliverance” prayer? Is that with or without banjos?
Hmm, Weets, now you’ve piqued my curiousity. I’ve read some pretty negative things about Neil Anderson’s assertions, but I must admit to ignorance of the contents of his book. Just that one needs to look closely to catch the errors of his methods. (I guess I should read the book before saying anything else, but I’m rather afraid to, I guess.)
As to anger and hurt? Yep. I’ll cop to it. Didn’t disguise it much with words like “tired,” “hurt,” mind-boggling” and “maddening,” I guess. Maybe I shouldn’t talk that way on my blog. I struggle with how “honest” to be, but I do (sorta) try not to “write angry.” I’m sure I mostly fail at that, though. Just call it the naked part of worship naked. That doesn’t change my spiritual obligation to forgive. And forgive. And forgive. (Sigh … the really hard part is just beginning.)
And I’m pretty sure that’s “Deliverance” with banjos. Demons hate banjos. (Who doesn’t? Ned Beatty does.)
BTW, because the demons are clouding my thinking, what’s ROFL? Anyone? T.
Tracey, ROFL is “rolling on the floor laughing” — it means you did one better than LOL. You funny lady!
Strange but I’ve been feeling compelled to write you but kept putting it off. Now my procrastination drove you to peeing on sticks? LOL! I guess I can literally say this time that the “devil made me do it.” :o) I have a big ole verbose essay half written on this topic(would you expect anything less and will post later today or tomorrow. Sorry not to finish it now but hey, it’s 4am!). Hang in there sweetie. I’ll loan you the bracelets and my dogs for a good tail-waggin’ face-slobberin’ love-fest and you’ll better than ever!!!!
BTW, Just saw your book selection. Loved “Life of Pi.” We’ll have to have a discussion about it some time. What did you think of it?
L — Trust me. I haven’t even scratched the surface here. Been verrry busy frantically peeing on sticks. I’ve got about a dozen more posts on this half written in my head, so you’re farther along than I am. Good. Can’t wait to read it. On the other hand, I’ve a sneaking suspicion it will be so darn good and comprehensive, there’ll be nothing left that I need to cover. (And don’t *even* start thinking I’m saying you’re verbose here. Stop that.)
And I guess I’m rather cheating on the whole “Life of Pi” thing because I only just started it. I’m liking it so far.
Now look. I’m a greedy, greedy girl, so get that thing posted. I want it NOW. And don’t any of y’all be telling me to calm down. Apparently, I can’t. (Cue banjo music … nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee nee …)
It’s just so nice to have an excuse for everything now. Why on earth would anyone want to be rid of that? 😉 T.
Seems to me that this relationship with your friend is very important to you. Without capitulating to something you aren’t convinced of, maybe just dealing with him patiently, until he works out the details on this phase, is the way to go. It might mean he walks away for a time, but if you express that your door is open for when he wants to walk together in fellowship- that is you walking in love towards him.
I get the feeling that is what you want to do.
Tracey – Joey has it exactly backwards. The rough patches in your life, the painful episodes, the hurt, the nasties, the inexplicable “bad” things that have happened to you have happened to everyone in one way or another. Everyone suffers in life; there is not a human being no one on earth – not one – who escapes suffering. Nancy Reagan observed that when RWR got Alzheimers, and it is a VERY true observation. So, is every human being possessed, because bad things have happened in their lives? No.
But we are all hurt by society’s growing impatience with suffering, either from the left, where anyone suffering should just die, or from the far right, where anyone suffering must be possessed.
When I was a little girl one of our family members suffered a stroke at age 22. He was left severely brain damaged, unable to walk or to see very well, with a limited vocabulary of a few phrases (and a couple of dandy, useful curses). It was – you can imagine – terribly hard for his parents, and for his siblings as well. At one point his mother told all of this to a nun after mass, and the nun said, “my dear, how much God must love you, to send you such suffering…”
I was 8 or 9 and I heard that nun’s remark and thought…what a NUTJOB!
It has taken me most of my life to understand the paradox that the nun presented. And some of it I learned at the bedside of my own brother as he died, and some I have even learned recently, in watching the Schindler family, and in watching the pope (gosh, did Joey think the Schindlers, or JPII were possessed?).
What I learned is hard to articulate, but I will try.
It is part of human nature that when things are going well in our lives, we’re not too concerned with talking to God. We might say,”Hi God, thanks for all the good things in my life, gotta run!” but we don’t overdo, you know? But when things are going wrong, we turn to Him, and turn and turn, for consolation and help. Mostly for consolation.
But that’s not really it. That’s just part of it, that in suffering we learn to turn to Him. The second and greater part of it is this: there comes with suffering enormous wisdom. Suffering brings enormous gifts. We realize everything we CANT do, and so we learn humility. We recognise what we CANT have, and we learn patience. We see what we CAN do and learn to be generous with it. We see what we MUST do, and learn fortitude. If suffering is such a tool for learning, such a means of spiritual advancement, then it follows that they are great gifts, given to us by a Father who loves us and wants us to grow into our potential, not simply here in the world, in earthly ways, but in the spiritual realm as well – in supernatural ways. Job praised God in his joy and in his sorrow, and St. Paul says to give thanks in all circumstances. I believe this is why…because GOD IS NOT DONE WITH YOU YET. HE is not DONE with any of us, yet, and he blesses us when he teaches.
If you ever read the book The Hiding Place, by Corrie ten Boom, you remember the remarkable scene she relates in Ravensbruck Concentration camp, wherein she and her sister Betsy were assigned an exceedingly terrible barracks, crawling and infested with fleas and lice. Betsy immediately prayed, and enjoined Corrie, too, to praise and thank God.
Corrie said, “THANK GOD? ARE YOU NUTS?” But Betsy won out, and Corried begrudgingly thanked God for the fleas and the bugs.
It was only later that they realized they had enormous and peculiar freedom in that barracks. Because it was so badly infested, the guards refused to go inside, and so every night, the sisters were free to minister, to read scripture aloud. The women all prayed together, in all of their languages and traditions, and learned to live together in a horrible situation, in peace and charity and even humor.
And I bet Joey would have wondered if all of those women were possessed, since such evil had affected their lives. I’m just teasing but you see how absurd his charge is.
“Be Not Afraid” was John Paul’s great lesson – taken from the Angels who say it over and over, whenever they appear in scripture. If you have been given blessings, you will no doubt be given difficult times as well. In our church many, many of our saints suffered enormously from illness or humiliation in their lifetimes, and yet they never counted it as evil that had befallen them, but as blessings that either relieved themselves of their overpreening egos, or whatever.
Suffering is bad, in once sense. We certainly want no gratuituous and meaningless suffering in life. But with the right, prayerful perspective, almost no suffering is meaningless. And if our suffering is leading us to walk more closely with Christ, or to look with more compassion upon our brothers and sisters, or simply to be still…well…then perhaps it means only that God loves you very much, and wants you to grow spiritually into a fine and free warrior for him.
I am afraid this isn’t much help. I understand this paradox much better inside my own head, inside my heart, than I can really explain. But know I will keep you in my prayers while you work it out.
And btw…you really MUST write more. You write so exceedingly well. I loved the thuddy brick. 🙂
And I’m sorry, I don’t mean to drive you nuts, but remember this, too.
How Mary, the mother of Jesus must have suffered watching him during his ministry – when he was doubted, or followed and made weary, and when she watched him shuffled back and forth between Pilate and Herod – then saw his torture and terrible death. Was she possessed because these terrible things happened?
As a mother, and a human being, even after the resurrection and ascention, there had to be a hollow spot in her heart where she simply missed her little boy and wanted him back. A pain for the rest of her life.
Everyone suffers. Everyone has bad things happen to them. Everyone is blessed.
The Anchoress said it wonderfully.
This saying, “When life gives you lemons,make lemonade” is better translated to “When God gives you grapes,tread them into wine”. This, as you know, is the Blood of Christ. So…tell me.
How does it make you feel to be a part of the Body of Christ ;^)
“As a mother, and a human being, even after the resurrection and ascention, there had to be a hollow spot in her heart where she simply missed her little boy and wanted him back. A pain for the rest of her life.”…..Anchoress
For the rest of her life and beyond, i dare say.
The Roman Catholic Church still has not taken Him off of the cross.
Isn’t this like driving the bus to the picnic with you eyes fixed firmly in the rearview mirror?
The Catholic church has not taken him off the cross?
Okay. Paul did say, “we preach Christ Crucified.”
The empty cross and the resurrection could not have happened without the crucifixion and the blood, and the message of Christ on the Cross is not one of unending torture but of unending comprehension…when Catholics look at that crucifix, they see – once again – that nothing of human suffering or pain was unknown to Christ – that if we are feeling humiliated, abused, unloved, torn apart, stripped and beaten, we do not walk that path alone…He knew it and walked it and can show us how to walk it, too. When I look at a Crucifix, I don’t remember all of it – the sacrifice and the resurrection.
I don’t frankly see the problem with it. But if you do, well. Don’t look. 🙂
Oops…I meant to say I REMEMBER all of it.
Sorry, I’m tired. Up watching John Paul’s funeral.
The Crucified is the price paid for our redemption. It’s our flag of freedom. Of course we carry him. Does an army go to war without a flag?
Dougman, It is more like taking a picture of the bus that got you to the picnic and looking at it later to remember the journey.